I hit the instruction trifecta when I met Kiawah’s golf instruction professionals at the Tommy Cuthbert Golf Learning Center, named in honor of the man who served as the resort’s Director of Golf for 26 years. Ronnie, Abby & Blake shared some of their wisdom with me in the following interview.
For more information on these golf pros, click here.
Ronnie Miller, Abby Welch & Blake Cathey
Golf Conversations: Do you folks have any particular swing theory that you follow?
Ronnie: We don’t use a specific method or philosophy of teaching. We have a team of teachers here who can take a student and understand what they need to learn. It’s not a “square to square” theory; it’s not “stack and tilt;” it’s not a specific method or philosophy. As teachers, we’re trying to make sure our students are returning the golf club squarely to the back of a golf ball with the proper speed. That’s the key to playing better golf. And there are lots of different ways to communicate that; Blake and Abby have different ways of doing that, as well as I do.
GC: If you have a beginner student and they ask you to recommend an instruction book for them to read when they leave Kiawah, what do you tell them? Or are you trying to keep them away from getting too much information?
Ronnie: I think that sometimes there can be an overload of information, but that’s not going to keep them from reading the latest publications and books. Abby teaches a lot of beginners, a lot of juniors, a lot of women, and she’s got some recommendations on some books.
Abby: Annika’s book is really good because it’s more pictures. There’s a big picture and she has about two or three lines about what to do … and on the next page there’s another picture with two or three lines. It’s really basic. If they’re more of a visual person, they can look at the picture and then look at themselves in the mirror and match up to that.
GC: Is that a fairly new book, Annika’s book?
Abby: It’s probably been out about two years. It’s a big book. I can’t remember the title of it. (note to reader: the book is called “Golf Annika’s Way…”) I like picture books. That way you are not reading too much into it. Basics. For a lot of people, if they can just keep reading the basics, you can fix a lot of things.
GC: Beginning golfers often read Hogan’s “Five Fundamentals” or Harvey Penick’s “Little Red Book.” Either of those two books do anything for you guys?
Abby: I think they’re good.
GC: A couple of years ago, Jim McLean showed how Hogan didn’t really do a lot of the things he said he did in his book. There’s that one illustration of Hogan where his arms are wrapped around like they have rope around them. Well, he didn’t do that.
Ronnie: He felt like he did that. And that’s the key right there; in the golf swing, there’s a lot of different positions you have to get into, but there’s a feel for getting there.
GC: And I think that’s the difficulty about reading golf instruction books; it’s hard to get the written word to describe a feeling
Abby: That’s why I always tell students if they’re reading a book and they have a question, go to your golf pro. Say to them, “Hogan says to do this — how does this relate to me?” Sometimes it doesn’t relate to them. I think if you read a book and have questions, consulting with your pro can make it easier for you.
Blake: It’s like reading the Journal of American Medical Association. If somebody reads it every month, they would be sure they would be dead by the end of the calendar year. There are a lot of articles out there. People read them and think everything that is written pertains to them. Helps us out, keeps us in business. (laughter)
GC: I’ve heard that many times from various PGA pros. Every time there’s a new swing theory in one of the magazines, they start booking more lessons.
Blake: My favorite is when “Stack and Tilt” came out; I had three lessons that came from that.
GC: It’s so maddening that the golf magazines have conflicting articles regarding swing theories.
Kiawah's Golf Learning Center
Blake: As teachers, we’re students too. We always will be. You never stop learning. That’s one thing I was taught in the early part of my career. Hogan continued to tinker with his swing. We know all the great players of today continue to study the game and try to find a better way of playing better. We read those magazines as much as anyone else does. Whether we use utilize any of that material is really up to the individual teacher.
GC: I stopped reading the instruction articles a long time ago. I just go right to the human interest stories.
Blake: The other day, we were talking about a tour player. Jimmy Ballard was teaching him to essentially slide, loading up on the right side. Look at the slow motion video — these people that play golf for a living aren’t sliding.
Ronnie: Ballard said it wasn’t a sway, but in most cases it was a lot of lateral motion and it worked. He taught a lot of top-notch players and that was his theory.
Blake: When you saw the players that he taught, they didn’t move quite as much…
GC: Ballard also said you move your head. But Nicklaus said Jack Grout was holding his head still when he was a kid and taught him never to move his head.
Blake: Nicklaus also rolled his left foot off the ground, a little bit for a pitching wedge and a lot for driver
Ronnie: Well just look at the title of Jack’s book, “Golf My Way.” It was HIS way. He was saying you keep the ball position inside the left heel for all the clubs.
Blake: Hogan did that.
Ronnie: Nicklaus did too. He kept the same ball position because the club basically bottoms out at the same place. I believe that your left arm is the radius of your swing arc and it doesn’t matter whether it’s the wedge or the 5-iron. So in relationship to your left foot, the ball should stay in the same position. Your right foot narrows and therefore from a perception standpoint it looks like your ball is more in the middle of your stance for shorter clubs.
GC: But then you hear the opposite that you should move the ball in your stance. For example, if you want to hit a low shot you move it back in your stance.
Ronnie: There are some people who advocate moving the ball back when you’re trying to hit lower shots, but all they’re doing is de-lofting the club, they’re becoming a little steeper.
Blake: A golf ball should basically be positioned off your sternum. Hogan talks about two golf balls off your left heel. Some people talk about positioning it off the logo on your shirt; it’s all about the same.
GC: Whose golf swings do you admire?
Blake: Ernie Els. It’s pretty simple and fluid.
Ronnie: Ernie Els, Tom Purtzer, Mark O’Meara, Larry Mize, Al Geiberger. You don’t find too many people who say they admire Arnold Palmer’s golf swing — they admire Arnold Palmer, he was one the greatest figures in the game of golf — but no one tried to emulate his golf swing.
GC: What about Sam Snead’s swing?
Ronnie: He used the word “oily” to describe it. He was a real natural.
GC: He had that famous saying about gripping the club as if you were holding a live bird.
Ronnie: But he gripped a little firmer than that!
GC: That image stuck in my brain and screwed me up for the next 10 years. I blame you, Sam Snead! (laughter) Okay, what are some of the more common mistakes that beginners make when they start learning the game?
Blake: Getting athletically set up: their weight is on their heels, or they’re standing too tall.
Ronnie: The fundamentals are essential to building a golf swing that repeats. And most people don’t understand the concept of posture.
GC: One of the oldest swing clichés is: keep your left arm straight. Your thoughts?
Ronnie: There is a difference between straight and locked.
GC: You were saying before that the left arm is the radius of the swing…
Ronnie: Yes, but you don’t want it rigid or locked. That’s not something we ever advocate — the left arm basically stays extended as much as it can. There have been a lot of good players whose left arm had some bend in it at the top of the swing but if they hinge then that becomes a problem.
GC: Do you think the golf swing starts from the bottom up, is it an arm swing, is it a hips swing? What’s the first thing you do to start that swing?
Ronnie: The first move is somewhere from the waist down, whether it is the hips, whether it is pushing off on the right foot, or the right knee starting to make a motion towards the golf ball. It is somewhere from the waist down.
Blake: Are you familiar with the K-Vest? It’s got sensors in it that let you analyze the golf swing. I was at a teaching seminar a few years ago where they use the sensors. I think they were talking about either Tom Kite or Tom Watson… and they found that when they start their downward motion, it’s the hips turning, and the radius from the hips to the shoulders increased by 5°. So the lower body in the best players in the world does start before the upper body on the downward motion.
GC: But how do you start the back swing?
Ronnie: It should be close to being a one-piece move with the golf club, your arms, and shoulders moving back first. You’re holding onto the golf club with your hands, your hands are going to actually initiate that first motion, but it’s in conjunction with your arms and your shoulders. It’s not independent, not as we’ve seen some players in the past where they actually pick the club up with their hands and get a real early set of the golf club. I don’t teach that, but if someone came to me and was successful in doing that I wouldn’t immediately change it. But if they had ball flight problems, then I would look at it, but it’s not the end of the game if you have an early set of hands.
GC: Okay, let’s change directions. What are some of your favorite golf courses in the US?
Blake: Augusta National. That’s my Mecca.
Ronnie: From a standpoint of natural beauty, I have to agree. For competition, I enjoy Pinehurst No. 2. It’s pure golf. There’s not a water hazard on the golf course. I saw Retief Goosen shoot an 80 in the final round of the U.S. Open after leading, so I know it can play extremely difficult.
GC: Why is golf so difficult for the average player?
Abby: It’s more fun to learn this game when you are younger. I tell the kids just swing like this and they’re very good at mimicking you. As you get older, you have a tendency to over analyze: “where should my left pinky toe be at the top of my swing. I’m coming down with my right hip with my left elbow here.” We think too much.
GC: Where were you guys when I needed you when I started in 1993? It would have been a whole different story. (laughter)
Ronnie: I was here at Kiawah. The ’91 Ryder Cup here put us on the map.
GC: If you hadn’t gotten into golf, is there something else you would have wanted to do?
Blake: I worked in cardiac and pulmonary rehabilitation at a hospital. My background is in exercise science. I didn’t like it. Golf was my backup plan.
(Laughter)
GC: I think the scenery is better here. What about you, Ronnie?
Ronnie: I never thought about doing too much else except being in the game of golf, but looking back on it, if I didn’t have the opportunity to be in golf, I probably would have gone into horticulture. Not agronomy, I don’t like growing grass!
GC: Do any of the bad swings that you see on a daily basis rub off on you?
Ronnie: Not really, but here is an interesting story: last week we had the opportunity to hear Hank Haney speak and he warned us about seeing faults in our students’ games that are actually our own swing problems that we’re working on. As far as having a student and seeing them doing something wrong and moving it into my own personal game, no.
GC: I know you folks spend most of your time teaching. Do you ever get the chance to play?
Ronnie: I do. I probably play more than Blake and Abby. In fact, I was supposed to be on the road today to play in a PGA seniors event but I ended up withdrawing so I could be here. So I do play and I play competitive golf. I’m moving up in age but the thrill of competition still is there.
GC: Do you practice, are you still tinkering with your swings?
Ronnie, Abby & Blake: Oh, yeah! (laughter)
Blake: We never stop tinkering.
GC: What about Bruce Lietske? He never practices or tinkers.
Ronnie: I’ve actually played with Leeky. I played with him in 1975 at Disney and he played that way then. He played what I would call a big old slice and he hasn’t changed. He never practices. I’ve never seen him go to the range except to warm-up.
GC: He’s a freak of nature!
(Laughter)
Blake: Romero is another one, isn’t he?
Ronnie: Couples, too. Couples doesn’t practice.
Blake: Because of his back. Scott Hoch probably doesn’t practice much anymore; remember in the 2007 PGA Senior when his caddie came out and wet grass so he wouldn’t hurt his wrist?
Ronnie: Talking about tinkering, I had the opportunity to be around Henry Picard for a few years … he lived here in Charleston. I saw him hit balls. He and Hogan practiced a lot together in their prime. They were constantly tinkering and Mr. Picard was still teaching when he was in his 70s here in Charleston. He was still trying to reinvent the golf swing, trying to find a better way of teaching, a better way of hitting golf balls. But you never stop learning. Mr. Picard told me you never stop learning this game.
Blake: I think once you get off the nuts and bolts of the golf swing, a lot of it’s between the ears. You see that in Bob Rotella’s books, and Tiger’s dad used to take him to a psychologist when he was young. You take someone who’s been wired since they are five years old and you can tell when he’s out there, he’s mentally in a different state than some of these other players.
In the Masters that Cabrera won, he could’ve given up. He hit a tree on 18, and I was in my car driving home. I was listening to the satellite radio when the announcer said, “That’s it for him.” But he just had the fortitude mentally not to quit. And the next week, Brian Gay came down to the Verizon in Hilton head and lapped the field. He was just in another world. And Jerry Kelly had really given up on himself and then all of a sudden started making birdies again and wins the tournament in New Orleans. Those are three examples of how your mental fortitude and state of mind is so important in golf.
GC: Is this something that the average player could learn to do?
Blake: I think so.
GC: Let’s say you double bogey the first five holes and you just feel awful. Can you somehow bring it back?
Ronnie: We’ve seen it happen. It’s almost as if they’ve quit worrying about what they’re doing and all of a sudden they calm down and things get better.
Abby: They have to find their own way, though. Their own happy place.
(laughter)
