Cabot Links: Inverness, Nova Scotia

Travel + Leisure ranks Cape Breton the #1 Island to visit in continental North America.

National Geographic Traveler calls Cape Breton one of “50 places of a lifetime.”

Condé Nast Traveler has said that Cape Breton is “the most scenic island in the world.”

Located on the northeastern end of Canada’s Nova Scotia province, Cape Breton is home to six magnificent golf courses, awe-inspiring scenery, fresh seafood, and friendly people.

In July, 2011, I golfed my way around Cape Breton, an epic journey that saw me encounter bald eagles, moose, loonies, toonies, fish & chips, links, bras, and single-malt whisky.

I flew to Halifax, Nova Scotia from Charlotte, NC. Then I boarded an Air Canada flight to Sydney, the largest city on Cape Breton. I loaded my clubs into a rental car and off I went on my Cape Breton Caravan to:

• Dundee Resort & Golf Club
• The Lakes Golf Club
• Bell Bay Golf Club
• Highlands Links
• Le Portage Golf Club
• Cabot Links

Cape Breton Island

Sydney to Dundee Resort & Golf Club – Driving Time: 1½ hours

I arrived at Dundee Resort & Golf Club after a delightful drive around the shore of Bras d’Or Lake … French for Arm of Gold.

I decided to have a quick look at the golf course before dinner. Dundee Golf Course is right next door – and I mean right next door – to the Resort. Specifically, it took me 1 minute to walk to the par-3 18^th green. There, in the gloaming, with the shimmering Bras d’Or Lake in the background, I noted the green’s undulations in my notebook.

Dundee Golf Course

I rolled a few golf balls towards the next day’s (Wednesday) pin position, traditionally back-left. If you were above the hole, putts broke towards the lake. Below the hole and putts, as everywhere else in North America, broke towards Indio. This preparation would put me in good stead for my 9:00am match with Cape Breton golf’s Renaissance Man, Terry Burns.

Dundee Golf Course

Dundee Golf Course offers spectacular scenery of rolling hills, verdant forests, and the ever-present Bras d’Or Lake. Thankfully, there are no houses or condos lining the fairways. You’re out in the beautiful Cape Breton wilderness, playing the world’s greatest game. You will LOVE this golf course!

Dundee Golf Course

I had the great pleasure of playing with local legend Terry Burns. Terry is to Cape Breton Golf as azaleas are to Augusta National … or something like that. Terry guided me around the golf course and showed me the best places not to shank my ball.

It certainly helped having Terry pointing me in the right direction and reading the greens. Of course, his assistance wasn’t required on the 18^th green, as I had performed my due diligence there the previous evening. As it turned out, my preparations were in vain because I hit my tee shot into the bunker, bladed my explosion shot over the green, and watched it fly towards Bras d’Or Lake.

Dundee Golf Course

Unfortunately, as Terry had been offering me “advice” throughout our round, I had no choice but to disqualify him under the Rules of Golf and declare myself the winner. Good sport that he was, Terry bought me lunch at the clubhouse and allowed me to interview him. You can read that interview here.

Terry Burns

Dundee Golf Club to The Lakes Golf Club in Ben Eoin– Driving Time: 1 hour

I backtracked towards Sydney on Route 4, once again with Bras d’Or Lake providing me with a lovely, scenic drive. An hour later, I pulled into the parking lot of The Birches at Ben Eoin, my home base for the evening.

I was welcomed to this quaint country inn by owners Barbara & Lawrence MacPherson and given the MacKenzie room on the second floor. And I quote from the Inn’s website regarding the room: “The king-sized bed is accented with French Toile fabric on the headboard and in the drapery.”

Try getting French Toile fabric at the Holiday Inn! I was impressed with my room. Première classe all the way. And the Wi-Fi was superb; I was able to use my iPhone to get my email and Skype my wife back in the U.S.

I went downstairs and chatted with Barbara, inquiring about the Lakes Golf Club. Turns out, it was right next door. And the Club had left a golf cart in The Birches parking lot for me. All I had to do the next day was load my clubs and drive 300 yards to the pro shop. How’s that for service?

Then Lawrence popped by and we had a little photo shoot in the lobby. Lovely people and great hosts.

Robert Blumenthal, Barbara & Lawrence MacPherson

The highlight of my stay at The Birches was a fabulous dinner, expertly prepared by a very talented chef. I believe I also knocked off a bottle of Cabernet and went upstairs and slept soundly under the French Toile fabric. To think I did that toiling for you, dear reader, so that you might learn about the wonders of Cape Breton golf. No, no. Don’t thank me. This is what I do.

The Lakes Golf Club

The next morning, I loaded my clubs onto the golf cart and headed across the parking lot for The Lakes Golf Club. But the cart slowed to a crawl and eventually stopped completely. I was stranded in the maintenance area with a dead golf cart. I tried putting the cart into reverse and that worked. I slowly backed my way towards pro shop, much to the amusement of the two teenage employees working at the bag drop area.

When I eventually arrived there, I informed the guys that I needed a new cart. They looked at each other and smiled. They told me that the golf carts had GPS units and were programmed to work only in designated areas of the golf course. The Great Golf Satellite in the Sky “knew” that I was driving in forbidden territory and pulled the plug on me.

Driving too close to a green would trigger a similar reaction, as would venturing onto the fairway on “cart path only” holes. What a great idea! Too bad you can’t get the Satellite to “zap” players with lightning bolts when they’re playing too slowly.

Sufficiently embarrassed by my cartus interruptus incident, I went into the pro shop and met my playing partners for that morning’s round: Lakes GC members Rick Preeper and Doug Buffett.

Doug Buffet, Robert Blumenthal & Rick Preeper

Rick and Doug showed me their magnificent course and we had a grand old time going up and down the lush, green mountains. Once again, the beautiful Bras d’Or Lake served as a thrilling backdrop on several of the holes.

The Lakes Golf Club

At one point, the beverage cart girl stopped by and I purchased a bottle of water. I had some Canadian paper currency with which to conduct the transaction. The change I received was of the metal coin variety; thus, I was introduced to the “loonie” and the “toonie.” The former has a denomination of $1; the latter, $2. Loonies and toonies – I love it! We need fun-sounding currency in the United States. Now that’s something our ineffectual Congress can work on together!

Loonie & Toonie

I particularly liked the multi-colored Adirondack chairs near some of the tee boxes. A nice touch, and a welcome one to the hearty golfers who walk the course.

Adirondack Chairs at The Lakes Golf Club

The Lakes Golf Club

Afterwards, Rick and Doug joined me for lunch. We discussed how the Lakes Golf Club evolved from local community participation with the Canadian federal government. What they built here is truly a magnificent golf course … and their story is an inspiring one. I’ll be publishing my interview with Rick and Doug in the coming weeks.

The Lakes Golf Club to Bell Bay Golf Club, Baddeck – Driving Time: 1 hour

Baddeck is a quaint resort village on the northern shore of Bras d’Or Lake. I checked into the oh-so-charming Inverary Resort and was ensconced in the Main Lodge, which dates back to 1850. But everything else about the resort is completely up-to-date, including flawless Wi-Fi service.

I dined that evening at the Lakeside Restaurant on Baddeck Bay. I kid you not, I had a fish stew that was out of this world. The fish was so delicious; it must have been caught earlier that morning. When my golfing days are over, my plan is to retire to Baddeck and eat fish stew at the Lakeside Restaurant every night. With wine. Don’t forget the wine.

Bell Bay Golf Club

Bell Bay Club is yet another beautiful golf course that I would be happy to play every day the temperature is 45 degrees Fahrenheit or higher. Head Pro Ted Stonehouse took me around the course and exhibited that fabulous “hockey” swing that many Canadian golfers seem to have.

Ted Stonehouse & Robert Blumenthal

One time we were deep in the woods searching for one of my balls and Ted saw an old potato chip bag. Naturally, he picked up the bag and disposed of it later in the trash. The man takes pride in his golf course. Ted also found me three balls for the one I lost so I have nothing but the utmost admiration for Ted Stonehouse.

Bell Bay Golf Club

Glorious views of Bras d’Or Lake, majestic mountains, and a track that is fun and fair for golfers of all abilities, Bell Bay Golf Club is a true delight. And its practice facility is top-notch too.

Bell Bay Golf Club

Bell Bay Golf Club to Highlands Links, Ingonish – Driving Time: 1¼ hours

Heading north on the Cabot Trail, you enter Cape Breton Highlands National Park, home to some of the most breathtaking natural vistas to be found anywhere in the world. I arrived at the venerable Keltic Lodge Resort and Spa, perched on a craggy cliff overlooking the Atlantic Ocean. Keltic Lodge is a throwback to the great hotels of the early 20^th century. Lots of wooden beams, hand-tooled architectural details, and spectacular views abound.

My favorite meal was the breakfast buffet in the Purple Thistle Dining Room. The only thing better than the Canadian bacon were the views of the Atlantic Ocean and the surrounding highlands.

Highlands Links Golf Course

Located about a half mile down the road from Keltic Lodge is the Stanley Thompson’s masterpiece: Highlands Links Golf course. Always rated among the top golf courses in the world, Highlands Links is a public course that is a true “must-play” on your Cape Breton golf caravan.

The name, however, is misleading. Highlands Links is not a links-style course. Rather, it traverses up and down the highlands and along coastal plains. While I was there, I saw bald eagles, moose, hawks, and other wildlife.

Of course, the only eagles I saw were perched high in the treetops. None were recorded on my scorecard that day. Hey, if it was an easy game, everyone would be playing it!

The scenery and the golf course are spectacular. Words don’t do it justice. The following photos don’t either. Visit the course’s web site for some great photos and live webcams.

Highlands Links

Highlands Links

Highlands Links

Highlands Links

After my round, I interviewed longtime member and Highlands Links President Lloyd Donovan. Look for his interview here in the coming weeks.

Lloyd Donovan & Robert Blumenthal

Highlands Links Golf Course to Le Portage, Chéticamp – Driving Time: 1½ hours

As you drive around Cape Breton Highlands National Park and head southwest on the Cabot Trail towards Chéticamp, you’re treated to one of the most spectacular land/sea vistas on earth:

Cabot Trail

Chéticamp is a fishing village that has its roots in the French Acadian colonists who settled in the area in the 17^th century. Several years ago, their descendants got together and said, “Let’s a build a golf course, mes amis.”

Le Portage Golf Club

Thus was born Le Portage Golf Club. I had the great pleasure of walking this wonderful course with two of the club’s members, Roland Chiasson and Ian McNeil. Venturing out into Le Portage is yet another journey through the natural beauty of Cape Breton. You’re surrounded by both the highlands of the Cabot Trail and the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

Le Portage

It’s “all-natural”: no houses or condos; just you, the trees and the wildlife. And if you’re lucky, wonderful playing companions such as Roland and Ian.

Le Portage

After our round, I chatted with Roland and his brother, Bernie Chiasson. They told me how Le Portage was created with the involvement of the Chéticamp community. Their interview – as well as my interview with Director of Golf /GM Dave Deluzio – will appear here in the coming weeks.

Roland Chiasson & Robert Blumenthal

Bernie & Roland Chiasson

Robert Blumenthal & Dave Deluzio

On the advice of Ian, I stopped in at the Doryman Pub & Grill and was treated to some fine, toe-tapping fiddle music. And, let me add, I sampled the best fish and chips I’ve ever had!  According to the waitress, the grouper had been caught that morning. None of this “fresh-frozen” nonsense; this was La Real McCoy. Merci, Doryman!

My digs for that evening were at the nearby Maison Fiset House, built in 1895 by Father Pierre Fiset for his brother Dr. Napoleon Fiset and his family. Dr. Fiset was the first doctor to practice in the Chéticamp area. Maison Fiset House was restored and enhanced in 2011 into an 8-bedroom Inn.

It’s charming, beautifully furnished, and has all of the modern amenities one could want. Wi-Fi coverage is excellent. The dining room is the home to a wonderful country breakfast. I made friends with Sheila and Maurice, a retired couple from Montreal. They, too, were golfers and were thrilled to hear that they might be included in this Cape Breton travelogue. Hey, Maurice: I saw you stuffing those extra Sweet and Lows in your pocket. You’re busted, monsieur!

Le Portage Golf Club to Cabot Links, Inverness – Driving Time: 1 hour

My sixth and last Cape Breton golf destination was Cabot Links. The course hadn’t yet opened to the public when I was there in July, 2011. But I was fortunate enough to be part of a media group that was allowed to sample Canada’s only true links golf course.

With the wild grasses and dunes – and the waves from the Gulf of St. Lawrence crashing onto the beach below the cliffs – the effect is, well, you feel as if you’re in Scotland. And why not? Don’t forget: Nova Scotia is Latin for New Scotland.

Cabot Links

Cabot Links is the brainchild of Mike Keiser – of Bandon Dunes fame – and managing partner Ben Cowan-Dewar. Ben is a smart cookie who ran a successful golf travel business for many years. But his love of golf – and golf architecture – inspired him to help create Cabot Links. Long after we’re all gone, Cabot Links will still be around to thrill future generations of golfers. Hats off to Ben, Mike Keiser, and architect Rod Whitman for giving us Cabot Links.

Ben was kind enough to sit down with me for a great interview which you can read here.

Cabot Links

Cabot Links

I knew Cabot Links was a special golf course when I parred my very first hole. That’s all it takes to make the average golfer happy … and coming back for more. Oh, I’ll be back alright. And I highly recommend that you make the pilgrimage there, too. The course opens in 2012 on June 29^th.

Cabot Llinks

So, too, does the new Lodge with 48 guest rooms and views of the links and the sea. Construction hadn’t started on the Lodge when I played Cabot Links. So I spent the evening 10 miles south at the Glenora Inn & Distillery in Glenville.

Glenora Distillery

This was my favorite place to stay during my Cape Breton Golf Caravan. For several reasons: it was nestled in the country amidst the hills, trees, and a gurgling stream. The bar and restaurant served delicious food and fine whiskies, including Glen Breton Rare – North America’s 1^st single malt whisky. And after a few whiskies, one can easily walk to one’s nearby room without endangering anyone by driving in a car.

Glenora Inn & Distillery

My room was nicely appointed and very comfortable. Wi-Fi coverage was excellent; I was able to video Skype my wife in North Carolina as well as a friend in Sweden. Spectacular links golf, whisky, and powerful Wi-Fi – what more could you possibly want from a golf vacation?

Inverness to Sydney Airport – Driving Time: 2½ hours

I flew back to Halifax from Sydney in the afternoon and spent the evening at a hotel near the airport. I had an early flight back to the U.S. the next morning.

If you’re thinking of planning your own Cape Breton Golf vacation, an alternative to the Halifax-Sydney round-trip flight I took is to drive from Halifax to Dundee Resort & Golf Club. Driving time is 3½ hours.

Start Planning Now

Right now, while Cape Breton is in hibernation during the winter, is the time to start thinking about a summer golf trip to this beautiful island in Nova Scotia. An excellent resource to get you on your way is the Golf Cape Breton web site.

I can’t wait to return to Cape Breton and spend some of those loonies and toonies I didn’t exchange when I left Canada. Hope to see you there!

I thought the article was an important one and I called Mr. Flick to congratulate him on its publication. I also inquired if he was going to be attending the PGA Merchandise Show the week of January 24th. Mr. Flick replied in the affirmative and I suggested that we get together in Orlando for another interview.

After watching Mr. Flick, Bob Toski, and Mike Malaska give a clinic at TaylorMade’s exhibit at Orange County National GC on January 25th, I called Mr. Flick and left a message on his voice mail. Long story short: he invited me to have dinner with him that night at the Hilton Orlando. The following conversation took place in Spencer’s Steak House.

Jim Flick

Golf Conversations: How’s your wife doing?

Jim Flick: Pretty good. She struggled a little bit leaving all of her friends; she didn’t know anybody when we moved over to Carlsbad.

GC: You were in Arizona previously?

JF: Yes. We were there 20 years and 20 years up in Michigan. She lost friends in both places and it wasn’t easy for her. Our dog Charlie has really helped. We’re both nuts about him!

GC: Two weeks ago when we spoke on the phone, you said, “I am pathetically in love with that dog!”

JF: That’s what I said. And that’s a fact.

(laughter)

GC: How long have you had him?

JF: He’s now 5 and we’ve had him about 4 years and 5 months.

GC: Where does he sleep?

JF: He’s a big guy so he sleeps on the floor.

GC: On the floor near you.

JF: Wherever he wants.

GC: He’s not in a garage in a crate?

JF: Oh, hell no!

(laughter)

Oh, hell no!

(laughter)

GC: Interesting that you talk about dogs … one of the problems we’re having in golf is we’re losing players and not attracting new players.

JF: Yes, we are.

GC: There are 77 million dog owners in this country.

JF: I did not know that number. 77 million? Wow!

GC: You know how you feel about your dog, Charlie…

JF: And most of them feel the same way about their dog.

GC: That’s right. And if you could … if this convention was in San Diego and TaylorMade was putting you up at the Hilton there, and Charlie could stay in your room with you, wouldn’t you bring Charlie with you?

JF: Oh, yeah.

GC: Ok. That’s how dog lovers feel about their dogs.

JF: Absolutely.

GC: Now if we could just get a small piece of those 77 million dog owners … work out an arrangement with a local public golf course … once a month have Doggy Demo Day. “Come to the golf course, get a free group lesson and bring your well-behaved dog with you to watch.”

JF: Your premise is an excellent one. We need something to get people back into golf. A lot of people are leaving the game every year.

GC: Yes. I think the way most people got introduced to golf was through a father or a friend…

JF: You’re right.

GC: …so I think you need to be more aggressive and creative in reaching people in a non-traditional way. That’s why I like the dog/golf idea. Of course, the dog has to be well-behaved; you have to pick up after him. The same way you have to fix your ball marks and rake the bunkers … the same type of etiquette would be required.

JF: Sure.

GC: Yes, a well-behaved dog would be a requirement but maybe you would attract people who might not otherwise go to a golf course.

JF: We need to do something.  I see our young folks … their work ethic is suspect.

GC: Yes.

JF: So many of them don’t want to go through what’s necessary to become a good player. They don’t want to be embarrassed. They don’t want to go through the hard work. They don’t want to take the time. Golf creates a lot of disappointments. You’ve got to have a passion for it, Robert, to really live through all of the things you’re going to have to go through to be a good player.

And people are so used to expecting excellence because they’ve been given bad evaluations of how they do everything. They’re told their art work is good … they’ve been told that this is good, that’s good, by their parents who are trying to help them develop confidence.

Well, most of the time, you develop confidence based on your own experiences and going through what you need to learn from your mistakes and get better. I’m really worried about our society because it is not moving in the direction that, to me, necessitates the same attitude that you need to be a good player.

There are a few kids who will work hard. You may not have heard me say this, but I’ve felt like I’ve had my very best teaching year this year, Robert. I had 11 different kids who won tournaments. If you had them lined up, you wouldn’t know they had the same teacher. They look different.

Now I taught them all the same principles but they put ‘em together their way. I tried to help them understand that it’s important that they understand what we’re trying to do, and how to build their golf game, because they have to become their own teacher. They have to understand what to fix when things aren’t going well. They have to understand how to play shots that only trial and error produces.

I don’t see a lot of kids today – and maybe I’m a little too strong about it – but most of my really good students are of Asian heritage.

GC: The girls?

JF: Even the guys.  (pause) Have I overstated the situation, Robert?

GC: I don’t think so. Certainly the Asian players … their parents, from what I understand, push them fairly hard in Korea…

JF: Oh, yeah.

GC: … and if they’re good enough and they come over here, they’ve had 10 years of their parents telling what they “must” do to succeed. And they want to please their parents and obey them. We don’t have that kind of blind obedience in this country. I don’t know if that’s good or bad.

[The waitress comes over and brings us our menus. There’s a tiny candle on the table in a very dark restaurant. We’re both having trouble reading the menu.]

JF: Boy, I’m sorry, Coach, but I can’t see a damn thing, can you?

GC: No.

[I hold my iPhone over Mr. Flick’s menu and shed some light on the situation.]

How’s that?

JF: Ahhh.  Ok, I’ve got what I want. Thank you, Robert.

GC: Anytime, Mr. Flick. I can provide you with light, tee up your golf balls, clean your shoes, just name it.

(laughter)

There was a story in the NY Times the other day about how the iPhone is manufactured in China.

JF: Yes, my wife was telling me about that story.

GC: Not only is the labor cost cheaper in China, but all of the different parts suppliers are located in China. It’s all in one location, the way Detroit used to be with all of the auto parts suppliers within a 100-mile radius. AND, what I think portends poorly for our country, the people who work in these Chinese factories – and I think they do the same thing with the golf clubs they make there – these workers are living in dormitories in the factories. They’re working 12 hours a day. People are leaving the countryside in China, streaming into cities looking for work.

So if you’re not putting that shaft on the driver head fast enough, there are a few thousand people outside waiting to take your job.

JF: Rush Limbaugh had it on his program. He was talking about that they pay those people $17 day, working 12 hours a day.

GC: We can’t compete with that.

JF: No.

GC: This is how it was in this country in 1903. That’s what scares me. ‘Cause not everyone can be a computer genius, not everyone can have a Ph.D. We used to have jobs for people who finished high school, went to work at the Firestone factory or the G.M. plant and they could make a good living. We can’t compete with people living in dormitories who’ll work for anything.

So I don’t know if it’s the work ethic as much as it is that the work has just disappeared.

JF: I think it’s some of both. I’m mean, you’re right, you’re right. We hear people complain all the time they won’t do the things that we gotta have the illegals do…

GC: Yep.

JF: …to your point, though: things have left the country and they’re not coming back.

GC: That’s right.

JF: I don’t understand Obama’s position on this oil thing. Because that would create so many jobs that we so desperately need. We should be taking our own oil out of our own country. I just don’t understand.  Of course, I know he’s been put in place by the environmentalists; that’s a very strong segment of his support. He’s very much indebted to those people.

I don’t know, Robert. I don’t see how we’re going to recover because the whole world is in shit-shape. And I’m not sure how the United States can right itself.

GC: I’ve read that it takes about 10 years from the time you start drilling for oil until you can refine it and get it to market.

JF: I’ve heard that’s not true. From what I hear, that’s very inaccurate. Christ, if we can build a rocket to get to the moon … how long did it take us to get to the moon?

GC: That’s funny because in one of Jerry Seinfeld’s shows years ago, he said he wished we had never gone to the moon because whenever something isn’t done or should be done, people say, “Hey, if we could go to the moon, why can’t we “fill in the blank.”

But let’s get back to golf. I love the way that you are passionate about your teaching. To see you out there today at the TaylorMade clinic, you were so engaged, so into it. Not many people in this world can do something that they really love…

Jim Flick & Mike Malaska at TaylorMade Clinic, Orange County National GC

JF: That’s true.

GC: …you see it on your face. It makes me feel good to see you out there doing it.

JF: Thank you.

GC: Your article in this month’s Golf Digest … I thought this month’s Golf Digest and this month’s GOLF Magazine were amazing because – forget about your article for a second. There was a story about how you should hit down with your driver…

JF: Yeah, I saw that.

GC: Ok. As far back as Old Tom Morris, I’ve always read that with the driver, you either hit it level or slightly on the upswing.

[The waitress comes over to take our order. FYI, Mr. Flick is watching his protein intake.]

JF: I want your very smallest filet. I can only eat about 6 ounces of meat.

Waitress: It’s 8 ounces. That’s the smallest steak we have.

GC: Take off 2 ounces and $10 from the bill!

(laughter)

JF: Will you eat part of it?

GC: FedEx it to Charlie!

(laughter)

[The waitress departs.]

So “hitting down on the driver” threw me for a loop. That was a first for me. The only person who I ever heard say “hit down on the driver” was Bobby Clampett in his book. And you and I spoke about this a year and a half ago: people who pick up the game for the first time are reading the golf magazines … this guy says, “You always hit up on the driver.” Next month, another guy says, “Hit down on the driver.”

It’s confusing to the beginning golfer. I think the magazines need to print a disclaimer with every issue: “Golf instruction has many theories. There’s no right or wrong. Find what works for you.” Or something like that.

Also in that same Golf Digest issue … for people who slice badly, open up your stance and aim 40 yards to the left? My whole life, I’ve read that the worst thing you can do for a slice is to compensate for it by aiming way left because you know it’s going to the right.

Then in GOLF Magazine this month, I read something like, “When you chip, you’ve probably heard that you should never let the club head pass your hands.”  Well, the GOLF article this month says just the opposite! It’s ok to let the club head pass your … SEE, that look on your face is the same one I had!!!  Swear to God! Wasn’t that one of Mr. Penick’s rules? “The club head never passes the hands”?

JF: It’s confusing, at the least. I don’t know, Robert. I think that’s another thing that’s hurting the game. There’s so much information that’s so confusing.

GC: For years now, I’ve been keeping my left heel planted on the backswing. Then I read your article about how the arms swing and the body reacts. And I started thinking, Sam Snead let his left heel rise, Mr. Nicklaus let his heel come up, Tom Watson … what the hell am I doing keeping my left foot planted?

So I went to the range and said to myself, “Ok, just swing your arms and let the rest of my body react and let’s see what happens.” Of course, my left heel came up and when I re-planted it, that allowed my hips to clear and provided the area with which my arms could swing through.

Does that make any sense or have I been reading too many golf instruction books?

JF: I’m such an “anti-hip” man. I literally hate that approach about the hips. Because, to me, it’s more important to have the chest facing the ball at impact than it is to have the hips open. For the average player, I’m not talking about Tour players.

Most average players have their shoulders open at impact, they can’t release the club, and it’s all because they’re trying to clear their hips.

I think we’ve heard so much about how important clearing the hips is, Robert, that I think 90% of the people who come see me, that’s their number one priority, is to clear their hips.

I think we have got people so body-oriented – big muscle oriented – that they have totally lost track of what their hands and arms have to do to make the golf swing work.

GC: I love that photo of you in Golf Digest this month where you had that rod stuck under your left arm. I don’t understand the stick-a-handkerchief-under-your-arm thing.

JF: When I talk to Jack, he thinks the rotary golf swing is the wrong way to play golf. It keeps the heel down, makes the body over rotate … To me, your chest facing the ball gets your arms coming down on a consistent path. The more open your shoulders are, the less you can release the club. And so many players today don’t want to release the club. They’ve got the face shut up on top, and they’re holding off, so that fits the rotary motion.

GC: The tour players?

JF: Yeah! That’s what many of the kids are being taught, Robert. They’re trying to make the same swing the tour players are and you never get a feel for the golf club. Therefore, they don’t have good short games, they can’t hit shots. And I think the industry has been captured by fitness.

I think fitness is bullshit. I think it helps a tour player but the average guy doesn’t have enough time to spend on fitness and take care of his job and take care of his family. And they’ve got everybody convinced that if you’re not physically fit you can’t play golf. I look at Darren Clarke; he’s not particularly fit.

GC: Hey, golf is made for guys with pot bellies!

JF: Not that I think being fit for tour players is wrong. But to sell people that everybody else has to be fit is also driving people away from the game. I’m concerned that it’s been turned over to a group which are physical fitness gurus. They’re trying to make a living telling people you can’t play if you’re not fit, so people don’t spend time hitting shots and learning how to control the golf club.

They feel like they’re helping their golf game by getting in better shape instead of using that time to have a short game. I think people have lost their priorities on using their time.

GC: Yes, whenever I lose my golf swing – which only happens about 10 times a week – I always go back to hitting little chips and pitches and get the feel back. But your point about fitness and golf is well taken. In fact …Waitress: more butter for my baked potato, please!

(laughter)

JF: I think there’s lots of contributing factors driving people away from the game. Obviously, time and expense. But the way we’re teaching the game is so scientific that it turns people off.

GC: How and when did this whole “big muscle” thing start?

JF: If you won’t quote me, I’ll tell you.

[Of course, I am honoring Mr. Flick’s wishes and I won’t divulge the name(s) of the “Big Muscle” instigator(s). If you really want to know, look for my yet-to-be published e-book: “Rat-a-tat-tat … ‘Yo, Dude: Turn your Lat!”]

GC: I saw Chuck “The Hit Man” Hiter a few years ago at a Champions tour event. When I see a guy balancing himself on a unicycle and hitting a driver 200 yards, that says to me he’s using his hands and arms.

JF: I hope so.

(laughter)

He’s a nice guy.

GC: He’s a sweetheart.

JF: Yes, he is.

GC: You see a lot of instructors endorsing training aids. Do you have any products that you like or endorse?

JF: I much prefer drills because it gives you a more direct feel than a teaching aid does, in my opinion. I guess I’m too old school; I’m not gimmicky.

GC: I respect that about you. Frankly, some of these guys have gone a little too far with the stuff they’re peddling. One month they’re pushing laser beams, the next month, bungee cords around your neck…

JF: Oh, yeah.

GC: I think it’s not nice. Years ago, Peter Jacobsen had some sort of strait jacket with sliding rails on it. Yeah, you take that to the driving range and wear some swiveling bullet-proof vest and hit balls.

So Mr. Flick, when do you ever play golf? DO you play golf?

JF: As you know, I had a real health scare about a year and a half ago.

GC: I did not know that. What happened?

JF: I nearly died. That’s why I’ve lost so much weight. I had a urinary tract infection and they gave me a drug called Cipro. It’s a very strong drug and it shut my kidneys down. I almost went on dialysis.

My kidneys now… I can only have 80 grams of protein a day. I weigh about 143 to 145; my best weight’s 160. It’s taken me a while … I was on prednisone. Are you familiar with that?

GC: Yes. My dog, Wolfie, is on prednisone.

JF: Oh, ok. It weakens you. I’ve now been off of it for about 4 months and I’m starting to get some strength back and feel better.

GC: Good.

JF: I would say, Robert, I play once every two weeks. Hard to keep a golf game playing once every two weeks. BUT, I do hit balls and I study my students’ problems to understand how to fix them.

GC: You’re still teaching at “The Kingdom” in Carlsbad?

JF: Yes. I had a lesson from Bob when I was down for the Hall of Fame induction and Bob gave me some ideas and I’m very pleased with that.

GC: Bob Toski gave you a lesson?

JF: Oh, yeah. Of course.

GC: What did he see?

JF: My body rotation on the backswing was so limited … I tried to do the “X Factor.”

GC: The X Factor??? YOU were trying that?

JF: Oh, sure. You’re gonna try everything when you’re teaching. Because you have to know what works, what doesn’t work. With my size, Robert, I can’t generate enough club head speed without a lot of motion. So I therefore lost a lot of feeling for my support that I used to have when I could play.

GC: I’m glad you’re on the mend. I’m sure you’ll feel better as you put on more weight.

JF: No. I cannot put on more weight. My kidneys can’t handle more.

GC: Was this some sort of bad drug that shouldn’t have been on the market?

JF: No, no, no. It was a drug I shouldn’t have had because it affects the kidneys and my doctor blew it.

GC: “Doctor blew it.”

JF: They’re human; they’re like everybody else. They can make mistakes. I had a kidney problem before; it was on all my charts. And this drug is known not to be good for the kidneys. However, those things happen. That’s part of life. Let me ask you this:

GC: Yes, sir?

JF: You’re an author, right?

GC: I don’t know about an “author,” but I’m a writer, yes.

JF: What percent of writers are really good?

GC: I’d say 5%.

JF: That’s what I say about every field. 5%-10%. My point is, if you go to a doctor or a lawyer or a golf professional, you don’t have any idea how good he is.

GC: Well, I’m glad you’re feeling better. It’s good to hear you’re out there every other week. Do you have a regular game?

JF: I have a couple of my students that I play with.

GC: Davis Love, Jr. and Bob Toski wrote a book, “How to Feel a Real Golf Swing.” And Davis Love III wrote in the introduction something like, “Dad, how do you do it? How do you go out there day after day and try to teach all of these bad golfers? How do you keep from going crazy?”

And I believe Davis Love said something like … he loved helping people and seeing them improve. I see that when I watch you teach.

JF: Thank you. I’m very lucky, Robert, as I’ve said to you before. If it weren’t for golf, I wouldn’t have had all the opportunities I’ve had. All the people I’ve met. The career, the financial rewards have been far beyond what could have happened had I been in any other field. And I’ve been luckier than hell. I’ve been fortunate enough to be at the right place at the right time.

GC: Yes, but you have been a great … and I’m not blowing smoke up your ass … but I think you’ve been a great ambassador for the game. You’re a good guy, you’re a gentleman. I can’t imagine anyone having a negative thing to say about you. Well, maybe your wife!

(laughter)

JF: I’m going to tell you about one of the nicest compliments I’ve ever had: did you ever spend any time with Paul Runyan?

GC: I never had the opportunity.

JF: What a marvelous human being. He used to do a lot of golf schools with me. Our wives are very close. I spent a lot of time with Paul. At the closing of a particular school, I had a driver that had about 10 degrees of loft. And I would stand on one leg and hit it off the ground with no tee. And I could hit it about 200 yards.

On this particular closing, I struck one perfectly. I kind of puffed my chest out because I was pleased. As I walked past Paul, he said, “Flick, you’ve gone further on less talent than anybody I’ve ever known.”

(laughter)

Paul won something like 28 tournaments on tour – 2 majors. He was a helluva player. And a marvelous teacher. You would have liked Paul. He was very strong-spirited, confident – and deservedly, because of his accomplishments. He got a lot done with a non-athletic body, let’s put it that way. Very whippy-looking guy.

GC: And he beat Sam Snead by 8 shots in the PGA …

JF: Oh, yeah. 8 & 7 in match play. I always enjoyed being with Paul because I could learn from him. Being around guys that have had that kind of success … and how they learned to play. I’ve worked with 24 people who’ve won major championships. When you do that, you see certain characteristics and certain principles that they believe very strongly in.

What scares me today is that we’ve gotten away from the principles that made players players. Such as: “Arms controlling shoulders.” Such as: “Feeling and using the instrument.” Such as: “Great footwork to support the swing.”

When I hear Jack … not too long ago I did a PGA Seminar for the Southern California Section with Phil Blackmar and Hale Irwin. Did you hear that story today?

GC: No.

JF: Ok. Hale had won 45 tournaments, $26 million. I had him play a par-3, a par-4, and a par-5. I was the master of ceremonies. We did that for 2 hours, had lunch, and then 2 more hours.

We spent an hour discussing with them what they did with their full swing and another hour what they did with their short game.

Hale was exactly like Jack: his feet controlled his golf swing. And the rhythm of his swing came from his feet. You don’t hear stuff like that anymore. Sam used to say that his feet were his “superchargers” when he wanted to hit it further.

Today we’re playing flat-footed. And Jack says when you play flat-footed, your feet never get into the golf swing. They don’t know how to move, they don’t know how to support. There’s a lot of people being taught to keep the foot flat and when you finish, the foot should be right on the ground. And that’s one of Jim Hardy’s things; that’s what he’s teaching.

And Peter Jacobsen and some of those guys that are doing the 1-plane swing. Because the swing is so rotary, you can’t move laterally very much. You’ve got stay very stable because you’ve got to catch the club up when your body is rotating so fast.

GC: Jacobsen and Jim Hardy were advocating the 2-plane theory. You were one or the other. Well, in this month’s GOLF Magazine, some guy just came out with a third plane!

JF: Yeah, I saw that.

GC: Now there’s three. Next month, it’ll be the five-plane theory!

JF: That’s disconcerting when they have so many different crazy principles where guys are looking for a way to get exposure, that they really don’t much care whether the information is correct or not. They’re looking for a way to get their material published with their name on it.

GC: Yup.

JF: The article you were talking about with Sean Foley … he’s coming out in the not-too-distant future with “The Myths of Golf.” He’s going to disprove many of them, such as hitting down on the ball. Such as weight shift. Such as this, such as that. Another opinion.

GC: I noticed that he’s now endorsing a new product called “The Little One.”

JF: I’ve seen it; I’ve hit balls with it.

GC: What do you think of it?

JF: I like it around the greens; it really helps people see how to swing the club a little slower, how to get contact. It’s not that hard to do. Have you tried it?

GC: No.

JF: It’s really good for short stuff.

GC: It seems to me that if you’re a chronic slicer and you have no eye-hand coordination, hitting a teeny-tiny-little club is not going to train you how to hit the ball. That’s my opinion, maybe I’m mistaken.

JF: Well, again, so many of those guys will do anything to make some money.

GC: Well, you know, time marches on, tempus fugit. The golf magazines need to attract younger readers; the advertisers want to reach younger people.

JF: Yup.

GC: Old guys like us – especially you …

(laughter)

You tell one guy you’re having dinner with Jim Flick, he goes, “Jim Flick? Holy cow!”  You tell another guy you’re having dinner with Jim Flick, he goes, “Who? Who’s he?”

Jim Flick & Robert Blumenthal

JF: Of course.

GC: So the next generation of teachers is coming through.

JF: Yup.

GC: And GOLF Magazine now lists the “Top 100 Teachers Under 40 Who Wear Their Hat Backwards” or whatever the designation is … and that’s why I’m glad to see that Golf Digest is still publishing your stuff. That your theory of the golf swing is still available to golfers.

JF: If I hadn’t had the opportunity to spend as much time with Jack as I have … that was the thing that made people accept me as a quality teacher. When Jack said, “He’s good enough to coach me,” that put me in a totally different category.

As long as Jack is revered for his playing ability – not that I had anything to do with that because Jack was a great player before he came to me. And I didn’t really try to change him. My goal was not to change Jack Nicklaus’s golf swing.

GC: Of course not.

JF: The thing to do … try to make him do what he’s been doing to be the best player in the world. Yet, all the other teachers that he went to see, they were trying to change him.

After Mr. Grout died, he saw Kostis, he saw Phil Rodgers, he saw 4 or 5 other guys and they were all trying to change his swing to be what they wanted it to be.

GC: That’s called “Big Balls” to try to change Jack Nicklaus’s swing!

JF: No, that’s called “stupid.”

GC: “Stupid,” for sure.

JF: It’s just ill-managed, is what I should say, because the truth is: if he’s already proven he could play, why would you want to change something at that time in his career? He was just getting ready to start his senior career and there was no reason to try to make him do something different.

But I hear your point and I appreciate your point that they are still giving me some space. But how long that will last? I’ve dropped … I’m now ranked 10^th in the rankings…

GC: Oh, please! That’s just bullshit. Between you and me, anybody who spends $1000 to spend an hour with a David Leadbetter or a Butch Harmon… are you out of your mind?

If either of those guys, in one hour, could make me a 3 handicap, I’d pay him $10,000. But I know better than that. I can only improve so much. I can only work with what I am. And I’m never going to be a 3.

JF: I’ve seen a lot of Butch’s students and believe me, I have a lot of respect for Butch’s teaching tour players, but his average players are for crap.

GC: I think Toski told me, “Hell, anybody can teach a tour player…”

JF: Well, I wouldn’t say it that way. They are much easier to teach in many ways because they have more athleticism. But the truth is, when you’ve got a guy’s career in your hands, you better be teaching the right stuff because it’s a large responsibility to be coaching someone when their career is in jeopardy.

Bob is very good at teaching a guy like Ken Duke. And he did a marvelous job with Birdie Kim.

GC: The second half of what Bob said to me was, “Anybody can teach a tour player, but it’s a whole other thing to take a 30-handicap and get him functioning on the golf course.” And to me, that is the mark of a great teacher.

If everyone who went to see a Harmon or a Leadbetter … “Yeah, I was a 16, I spent a day with Butch, next week I was an 8.” That would be something.

JF: We know that can’t happen.

GC: Yes. But that to me is what makes a great teacher. Not telling Phil Mickelson to shorten his backswing 2 degrees. I could do that. And I’d charge him $100 plus a Five Guys gift certificate.

JF: It’ll be interesting to see what the repercussions are for what the big muscle swing, the rotary swing, does to people’s backs. I talked to one of the guys from the Stryker van who works on the tour players. He said guys who are doing the rotary swing better have a tremendous amount of muscle around their spine because they’re just tearing their backs up.

GC: Speaking of bad backs, how would you classify Fred Couples’s swing?

JF: Oh, Fred’s a swinger. He’s not connected in any way, shape or form.

GC: He’s got that elbow flying out there.

JF: Oh, Christ. He swings the golf club. He’s not connected. They say how fast he throws his hips; I can’t agree or disagree with that. But whatever he’s doing with his hips … his feet and legs are supporting his arms. He moves laterally through the ball before he gets rotary.

If you read what they’re writing in Golf Digest about there’s no lateral movement at all in this guy’s golf swing, that’s total bullshit. All you’ve got to do is look behind the players and you can see how they’ve moved laterally before they have gotten rotary.

GC: Hey, speaking of moving laterally… when Mr. Grout was teaching Jack Nicklaus as a youngster, he’d grab a hold of his hair to keep his head still…

JF: Right.

GC: And that idea of keeping your head still got poo-pooed … that your head does move somewhat to the left. Where do you stand on that?

JF: I think you want to stay fairly centered. But with the driver, your head is going backwards at the moment of the strike because the club is swinging upwards. The good player’s head is going backwards. And yet, with short irons and all, there is enough lateral move that your head does move forward some.

GC: But on the backswing, is the head going back?

JF: Not very much. A Jimmy Ballard would say “some.”  Jack would say he stays more centered. Some guys have moved off the ball and played pretty well but sure as hell not very many tall players.

There are certain characteristics that fit the tall players that do not fit the short player.

GC: Speaking of players, when I go to PGA Tour events and I see these guys on the range surrounded by the putting coach, the sports psychologist, the full swing coach, the short game coach … you know what’s next? You’re gonna have a coach that specializes in the 6- and the 9-iron because sometimes you mistakenly pull the wrong club when it’s upside down.

These hangers-on are surrounding these guys. It looks like boxing with Muhammad Ali and an entourage. Come on, guys! Just go out and play golf! It’s a little too much, in my opinion.

JF: I don’t disagree and that’s one reason I’m not so terribly excited about coaching tour guys. I’ve done that, I’ve enjoyed it, but I’m not going to do anything that takes me away from Charlie for very long.

GC: Ok, now we’re getting somewhere! That Charlie! I would love to meet him one day!

(laughter)

JF: Charlie is a full-time character. He’s got such a big heart, Robert. He loves people. When I walk him, if he sees somebody that he’s met, he will immediately lay down until they catch up with us so he can say “hi.”

GC: Jim, my dog does the same thing.

JF: Oh, yeah! They’re so social. And they enjoy people. And they’re so honest. If I’m walking Charlie, he’s this close to me. If Geri’s walking him, he has no time for me until I come that afternoon because he wants his mommy to take him on his walk.

(laughter)

The walk’s a big deal for him.

GC: Sure.

JF: We walk him twice a day. The first time, a little over a mile and a half. The second time, maybe a half a mile. He looks forward to that so much.

GC: While I was visiting TaylorMade in Carlsbad, there was a Panera right off of El Camino Real.

JF: I know where it is.

GC: Well, you could have your coffee outside Panera with Charlie.

JF: You see, I don’t drink coffee.

GC: Have some tea, have some soda. That’s not the point! Just get a bagel with cream cheese and give Charlie some cream cheese.

(laughter)

**************************************************

Part 2 of my interview with Jim Flick at the PGA Show will be posted in the coming weeks.

Jeff Simonds

Golf Conversations: I’ve played all four of your courses this week and I’m practically speechless. I think that Mike Keiser should be put into the Golf Hall of Fame.

Jeff Simonds: Absolutely.

GC: Each course is just beautiful. I am not of the whiner school: “Well, the greens are little bumpy” or “The greens are too undulating.” Revel in your surroundings: Look at the scenery, look at the ocean, look at the people. Well, maybe two out of three.

(laughter)

JS: It’s pretty rare to find four golf courses that are this unique – even side by side – that can challenge any level of golfer. We get beginners who come through here; they’ve read about it and they just want to come experience it. Even if you can’t get the ball airborne, you can have a great time out there.

GC: Why are you looking at me when you say that?

(laughter)

JS: It’s a ground game with not a lot of forced carries. Pretty much everyone can have fun out here. It’s a nice, casual golf experience that you can’t get anywhere else.

GC: And instead of going overseas, you can come here, have good food, good toilets, good showers, and you can understand what people are saying. You’ve got the whole ball of wax here.

JS: It’s links golf and it’s in America. The best of both worlds.

GC: I loved it! So how’d you end up here at Bandon Dunes?

JS: I’ve been here for 8 years. Came from Boise, Idaho. I was working at some private clubs in Boise and everything was driver-wedge, driver-wedge, driver-wedge.

GC: I know. It gets rather tedious, doesn’t it?

(laughter)

JS: I hate to say golf was boring but it didn’t require much thinking. At the time, only Bandon Dunes and Pacific Dunes existed. I played college golf and knew about this place and wanted to come out here and check it out.

I was willing to take any job that was offered to me to come work here. I did get offered a job and once I was in, I was hooked.

GC: What was your first job here?

JS: A golf shop assistant. I was in the PGA program but took a seasonal job to get here and Trails was just starting to go under construction and I knew there was opportunity here. It wasn’t long before I started getting promoted and it’s just a fantastic place to be.

GC: How did you move up the ladder?

JS: There’s luck, there’s timing, there’s hard work. The fact that Mr. Keiser kept building new golf courses helped. After about a year, year-and-a-half, I became the head professional at Pacific Dunes which was certainly faster than I ever expected.

GC: Yes, I’d say so.

JS: I was 24, 25 when that happened. And Pacific Dunes became the Number One ranked public golf course, so what could be better than that?

GC: That was quite a feather in your visor.

JS: And we got to do the Curtis Cup; I was the host professional for that. Another great experience that I wasn’t expecting to get right away. And the following year was the US Mid-Amateur Championship which gave us a USGA Championship on all three golf courses at the resort.

GC: Where was that one held?

JS: Bandon Dunes and Bandon Trails. They played it over both courses. And the resort grew and now we have four courses with a fifth under construction.

GC: The fifth course is going to be a par 3?

JS: It’s a par-3 golf course called The Preserve. There are 13 world-class, par-3 holes. Coore and Crenshaw, when they were here designing Bandon Trails, they had that land at their disposal. But there just wasn’t a clear-cut routing to use that land and get in all 18.

Mr. Keiser and the Coore-Crenshaw team just kept going back there. It’s such good golf land, they wanted to do something with it.

GC: Never any thought of putting up a Burger King there?

(laughter)

JS: I think when they took the vote: “Add more golf” or “Fast food restaurant” – “Add more golf” just got in there.

GC: You know what the mark-up is on French Fries and soda?  ROI, I think you’d do better with a Burger King. And nobody ever asks for a rain check at a Burger King.

(laughter)

Another great idea I had for you guys: you’ve got this mini-bus shuttle system that moves guests around the resort. How about a monorail like in Disneyworld?

JS: That would be a good one.

GC: Don’t mention it to Mr. Keiser. I don’t want to get you fired.

(laughter)

And my last great idea: a couple of weeks ago I was at Cabot Links in Nova Scotia.

JS: How was that?

GC: Gorgeous, spectacular! And I parred the first hole. I even had some pars here!

JS: Perfect.

GC: Oh, so here’s my idea: a high-speed bullet train from Nova Scotia to here. You play Cabot Links — aka Keiser East — in Canada, jump on the train, head to Oregon…

JS: It would have to go underground, though.

GC: Underground, around Lake Michigan, through the Rockies; hey, I’m a visionary, not an engineer. It would put a lot of construction people back to work. Again, if you want to bring this up at the next staff meeting, be my guest.

(laughter)

JS: I’m writing it down right now.

GC: Ok. The golfers who come here, is there a particular reaction you witness or hear very often?

JS: We get a good mixed bag of returning guests that are coming back for their 9^th, 10^th time.

GC: Bandonistas!

JS: We have a very loyal following. They come experience it once, have a great time, and they like to bring back new people. We also get people who see it for the first time. After a couple of days we can usually recognize the first-timers because they’ve still got that grin on their face, but they’re walking a little sore.

(laughter)

GC: Yes, my feet were killing me after the first day. That’s the last time I wear stiletto heels on the golf course. Maybe afterwards at McKee’s Pub, but not on the course.

(laughter)

JS: People exhibit an excitement that you don’t really see in a lot of places. You get that raw, emotional feeling when you come out here. It’s fun from a staff perspective. The staff is just as enthusiastic about the place because you’re at the best golf resort in the world, in our opinion.

So to see people come to our golf resort and have that great experience … well, everyone’s a winner.

GC: Yesterday I got on the shuttle at the Practice Center. The driver asked me, “Old Macdonald”?

I said, “How many times, when you ask people that question, do they respond: ‘Had a farm’?  Or ‘Ee-i-ee-i-oh’”?

And she said, “Probably 10 or 15 times a day.”

(laughter)

She also told me that most people don’t get the reference to Charles Macdonald. By the way, I loved that shot at Old Macdonald – the 3^rd or 4^th hole – where you have to hit your tee shot over the hill where that old tree is.

JS: Yeah, it’s the third hole – a blind tee shot.

GC: That was a lot of fun. When we got up to the ridge, Migs was there. [NOTE: Michael "Migs" Scalici is a Bandon Dunes employee who was serving as a course ranger the day I played.] And I said, “Tell me the truth: was that the best drive you saw today?”  And he said, “Uh… no.” He really disappointed me.

JS: He’s pretty good at telling the truth. But how about that view when you get up on top? You see the entire golf course right in front of you.

3rd Hole at Old Macdonald

GC: Spectacular! I’m thinking of coming back in three days. Fly back to North Carolina. Change my shoes. Get new underwear. You don’t have underwear in the pro shop, do you?

JS: I think we’re all sold out. The last reporter that came through bought it all. He’s now working at Guest Services. Feel free to grab an application on your way out. But we do have a service that will come in from town to do your laundry.

GC: Do you ever get a chance to talk with Mr. Keiser?

JS: Absolutely. He walks around and gets his fingers on the pulse of the resort. It doesn’t matter what your position is, he’s interested in your feedback. For every front-line staffer we have, there’s usually two or three working behind the scenes to help pull off whatever task it is. He checks in with everyone.

GC: How many people work here at the resort?

JS: Just over 500. Then you have the caddie corps after that. They’re all independent contractors. We’ve got our Director of Caddie Services, Ken Brooke, who leads the caddie corps.

GC: Bandon’s got a tufted puffin logo. Have you ever seen a tufted puffin here?

JS: I personally have not.

GC: Has anyone seen a tufted puffin?

JS: Absolutely!

GC: Yes?

JS: Out on the rocks, they will come and lay their eggs in nests.

GC: Next to my golf balls.

JS: Right. They hatch Titleist 4s all the time.

(laughter)

GC: I’m staying over at the Lily Pond. I pulled open the curtains this morning, opened the patio door, and saw a snail on the patio. I don’t know if that was some sort of management comment on my pace of play.

JS: You got that hint, huh?

(laughter)

GC: Yeah, I got it!

(laughter)

JS: Usually, it’s either the horse head in your bed or the snail on your patio!

(laughter)

GC: Message received! I play very quickly so I think the snail was meant for someone else.

JS: That was our fast snail.

(laughter)

GC: You know, for a golf pro, you’re pretty funny. Saw some deer, too. By my room and on the golf course.

Robert Blumenthal & Jeff Simonds

JS: The wildlife around here is pretty much at peace with the golf course. They realize that they’re not going to be bothered. I don’t think there are many that have been hit by golf balls because we’re all great golfers out here.

GC: What else can we tell people about coming out here? Obviously, there’s a better time of year, weather-wise, than other times?

JS: July, August, and September have probably our most predictable weather. It’s going to be warmer, it’s going to be less wind than what we get in June. But you can get a great day any day of the year. January and February are actually very popular months. There’s not a bad time to come out here. You can get rain almost any time but you can get also sunshine and 70 degrees. We play golf here 365 days a year.

GC: Do you get snow in the winter?

JS: It snowed a couple of times here in the 8 years I’ve been here but it doesn’t really stick.

GC: What’s your policy on rain checks?

JS: If you don’t like the weather, you get a rain check for that round of golf.

GC: Hey, that’s very nice!

JS: But once you tee off, you’re committed to the round.

GC: It’s not like in South Florida, when it starts raining on the 18^th fairway and all the old guys come running into the pro shop demanding a rain check?

JS: No.

(laughter)

People come out here prepared for the weather.

GC: Yes. You have to.

JS: And we’ve got some great gear inside the golf shops to handle every type of weather. You travel out here from the East Coast and you’re kind of committed. So you go out and play and have a good time.

GC: That’s right.

JS: One of the comments we often hear is … if you play a round of golf in perfect, 75-degree weather with no wind, it’s tough to remember that. But if you come up to Bandon Dunes and you play in a 25 mph wind with some sporadic rain, you can recall every single shot you made. And you realize you played a great round of golf under challenging conditions.

GC: When I play a new course, the whole thing is like a blur. I can’t recall hardly any of the holes, but they were all so beautiful. I found myself doing a lot of standing and staring. Especially at the Pacific. This is a very special place.

I noticed there was a helicopter flying around today and was told Mr. Keiser was up there. Is this his way of avoiding me?

JS: We’re trying to keep you two separated because we don’t want that monorail built.

(laughter)

GC: Jeff, thanks for your time. And thanks for the hospitality everyone here has shown me.

JS: You’re welcome.

************************************

You can read more about my trip to Bandon Dunes Golf Resort by clicking this link.

Bandon Dunes: Golf As It Was Meant To Be

“…he had an idea to build a city out of a desert stopover for GI’s on the way to the West Coast. That kid’s name was Moe Greene, and the city he invented was Las Vegas.This was a great man, a man of vision and guts. And there isn’t even a plaque, or a signpost or a statue of him in that town.”

–Hyman Roth, “The Godfather: Part II”

With apologies to screenwriters Mario Puzo and Francis Ford Coppola, let me amend the above quote to the following:

“… he had an idea to build a true links golf course in the middle of nowhere on the Oregon coast. His name is Mike Keiser and the golf course he built is Bandon Dunes. This is a great man, a man of vision who hates golf carts. And there isn’t even a plaque, or a signpost or a statue of Keiser at his golf course.”

There should be a statue of owner Mike Keiser at Bandon Dunes. Please don’t confuse this plea with my usual sucking up to important people in the golf industry. That sucking up will occur later in this story.

No. My homage to Mike Keiser is sincere. Golfers around the world should get out of their golf carts, get down on their hands and knees, and thank Keiser for building Bandon Dunes Golf Resort. (If, in doing so, their hands and knees create any divots, please replace or fill them.)

[Let’s define some terms: “Bandon Dunes” was the first course built in 1999. Four other courses were added in subsequent years: Pacific Dunes in 2001, Bandon Trails in 2005, Old Macdonald in 2010, and Bandon Preserve (a 13-hole, par 3 course) in 2011. These days, when people refer to “Bandon Dunes Golf Resort,” they usually say “Bandon Dunes,” for short.]

I made the pilgrimage to BD in August, 2011 and spent almost a week there. Some would say that Bandon Dunes is the “Mecca of American Golf.” To those people I would say: “Be careful to whom you say Mecca.”

I would go further: I would say that Bandon Dunes is the “World Capital of Links Golf.”

“Blasphemy!” you say? What about the great links courses of the UK and Ireland?

I’ll make it very easy for you to understand why BD is the clear-cut winner.

Here’s a photo of my Bandon Dunes caddy, Kristin Janinis:

Kristin Janinis: A Caddy for Every Lass & Laddie

Here’s a caddy from across the pond:

MacPherson Strut

I rest my case.

Exodus

And the land was abundant with golfers lost on the fairways. Yea, they wandered in their carts hither and yonder in search of yardage markers and sprinkler heads.

Mike Keiser looked upon the golfers and proclaimed, “Verily, ye shall ride no more upon the grass. Ye shall walk: two by two or four by four – sorry, no eighthsomes unless you’ve got a money game going – and tread happily across God’s green earth.”

[NOTE: My trip to Bandon Dunes is the second half of my "Keiser Daily Double." In July, 2011, I had ventured to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia to sample six of their beautiful golf courses. One of them was the newly-built Cabot Links, partly owned by Mike Keiser. Holy Haggis, this guy owns more links than Jimmy Dean! My Cape Breton Golf Travelogue will be published next month.]

I departed Charlotte Saturday morning, August 20^th on US Airways and arrived in San Francisco at noon. My United Express flight to Southwest Oregon Regional Airport (OTH) in North Bend wasn’t departing until 3:30 pm. A long layover BUT … US Airways and United are in two separate terminals. Each requires its own passage through TSA’s screening process. As I had plenty of time to kill, I asked a TSA agent to conduct a full-body search and was taken into a back room where some local artisans were baking sourdough bread.

My United Express flight was 60 minutes late arriving from Chico, CA. New hamsters were loaded onto the small plane for more thrust power as the baggage hold was weighed down with golf clubs and lucky ball markers.

The pilot announced that we would be flying “left to right” up to Oregon and would be “straightening out” as we reached the airport. The wind was “quartering from the right and hurting.” We would be hugging the Pacific Ocean coastline the entire trip so he was turning off the navigation system and relying on plumb-bobbing to guide us to our final destination. I asked the pilot if plumb-bobbing works. He replied, “Who knows?”

90 minutes later we arrived at North Bend. As I passed by Security on the way to collect my baggage, I inquired if full-body searches were available to arriving passengers. The TSA agent was flummoxed by this request – “We’ve never heard that before!” – and I was asked to “move along, please.”

I had reserved taxi service with Connoisseurs Golf Transportation and the driver was waiting for me as I exited the terminal. I boarded the mini-bus with eight other passengers and, I kid you not, the driver popped Caddyshack into the DVD player.

Smiling as I watched Rodney Dangerfield proclaim, “Last time I saw a mouth like that, it had a hook in it,” I was off to Bandon Dunes Golf Resort.

I Refuse to Say, “In the Gloaming.”

The mini-bus pulled up to the bag drop area near the Bandon Dunes pro shop. I was tempted to remain in the bus for another hour or so to watch the end of Caddyshack. But I was here to play golf, NOT fritter away my time with mindless diversions. So I checked in at the front desk and learned that I was staying at the Lily Pond rooms, just “a wedge shot from the Lodge,” according to the BD web site.

The Lodge at Sunset

Shuttle vans take you anywhere you want to go at the resort, 24 hours a day. I would later discover that it was a short walk from the Lodge to the Lily Pond. But I took the shuttle to my room, a brief, 2-minute drive. My accommodations were lovely, “modern rustic” and as comfortable as an old 5-wood.

In Dream Golf, Stephen Goodwin’s excellent book about the creation of Bandon Dunes, we learn that Mike Keiser, minimalist extremis, originally didn’t want any sort of lodging on the property. He would have been happy with just a trailer where you could change into your golf shoes.

Thankfully, someone talked him out of that wacky idea (you see, it’s not all about sucking up to Keiser. If warranted, I can be savage with my criticism!) and the resort has many different types of wonderful accommodations, including The Lodge, The Inn, The Lily Pond, The Grove, and Chrome Lake.

The word on the street is that management uses the Lily Pond rooms to house scratch players and golfers with delusions of grandeur. Thus, I felt right at home. The bed was plush and comfortable. I had a nice leather, Mission-style easy chair to flop into, and the gas fireplace did a top-notch job of burning my scorecards.

By the way, you’re at the wrong resort if you expect to flip through 80 television and pay-per view channels. There are a handful of stations to watch – including Golf Channel, of course – but trust me, after a long day of four-putting and walking and eating and drinking, you’ll go back to your room and sleep like a baby.

I did. Every night. And one morning, I opened the patio door and took the following video:

The wireless internet service is excellent throughout the resort … as is the cell phone coverage. (There’s a cell phone tower nestled in the woods on the property.) So it’s super-easy to keep up with the latest Brad/Angelina news on your iPad or smart phone. OMG!!!!!!

Getting back to the first day at BD … after I scoped out my room at Lily Pond, I took a short walk over to the Lodge. This edifice fronts the Bandon Dunes golf course and putting green. It was around 8:00 pm and the sun was setting over the Pacific. NOTE: This is the time when golf writers can’t resist the temptation to use the phrase, “in the gloaming.” I ain’t doin’ it. The sun was setting … period! But I was thrilled to see that there were deer in the nearby fairways and I went over to engage them.

Bambi

The Bambis let me come up to within 10 feet of them. I think they realized that as long as I didn’t have a golf club in my hand, I presented no danger to them.

Then it was off to McKee’s Pub for a damn fine cheeseburger and a local brew. Walking back to the Lily Pond in the cool summer evening, I was looking forward to my afternoon tee time the next day at Bandon Dunes.

“If it’s nae wind, it’s nae gawf,” which is just fine with me.

Look at this:

“The signature hole is number 14, a short, downhill 330-yard par 4 that plays into the teeth of the prevailing winds. Your tee shot must hug the right side of the fairway to give you the best angle into the green that slopes from left to right. Better players will want to layup to a comfortable wedge distance. High handicappers will want to let the Big Dog eat and…”

Sorry, but I don’t write that kind of stuff. I can think of few things as boring to read as a description of how to play a golf hole. Besides, you can get that information by visiting the Bandon Dunes website and clicking on the “Course Routing” tab for each of the four regulation golf courses.

But here’s what I can tell you about Bandon Dunes, Pacific Dunes, Bandon Trails, and Old Macdonald: they’re drop dead, gorgeous, beautiful golf courses! You’re out in the wilds of nature, walking – gazing about at the stunning scenery. It’s fun! Hey, golfers: I just said that it’s fun! That’s why you play golf, right? So check your ego at the Starter’s Shed and don’t worry about your score. Be thankful for where you are and enjoy yourself.

Another Day at the Beach at Bandon Dunes

Forget your score; come to BD for THIS.

Bandon Dunes has push carts you can rent … or you can hire a caddy. I recommend the latter for the first time you play a BD course because, frankly, it’s hard to know where to hit your ball.

And as caddies go, I had a beaut! Accompanying me for my trek around each of the four courses was Kristin Janinis. You can read my interview with Kristin here.

Kristin Flying the Flag at Pacific Dunes

Kristin is an aspiring tour player who, this winter, is in Palm Desert, CA working on her game with instructors Billy Harmon and Dave Stockton, Jr. I honestly believe that I contributed to Kristin’s development as a touring pro by showing her exactly what not to do on a golf course. Indeed, Kristin was able to witness golf played at a level she didn’t think was possible. Don’t thank me, Kristin. This is what I do.

Weather-wise, it was amazing! The mornings were cool and foggy. The sun came out in the afternoon and the temperature rose to the mid-70s. Everyone at Bandon Dunes, including Kristin, remarked about the warm days that saw no wind. This was very un-BD like weather, I was told. I must have said “if it’s nae wind, it’s nae gawf” about a dozen times and the twenty-something staffers looked at me like I was speaking Portuguese.

Because this is links golf, the fairways are firm. And that was pretty tough on my feet. My dogs were barking after my first day walking in golf shoes. I wore sneakers the next three days and my feet felt much better.

“This is golf as it was meant to be.” No houses or condos lining the fairways. No golf carts buzzing around in circles. Just beautiful sand dunes, lakes, trees, gorse, and the mighty Pacific Ocean.

Gorse on the Course

Thank you, Mike Keiser — and all of the architects, shapers, construction and grounds crews — for creating this golf heaven on earth. (I’m still not sucking up to Mr. Keiser. Wait. It’s coming.)

Elizabeth, Rob & Blaine: The Stalker Family?

One morning in the Bandon Dunes pro shop, I noticed a mother and father having an animated discussion with their teenage son. They were in front of a sunglasses display case which the pro had unlocked for them.

Being a nosey fellow, I couldn’t help but overhear the back-and-forth. The son wanted Dad to purchase a not inexpensive pair of sunglasses. The kind the tour players perch on their hats to obscure the logo that they’re paid to display for the TV viewers.

Dad was not interested in shelling out a couple of hundred bucks for cool golf shades. I politely introduced myself and explained that I was on a fact-finding mission for GolfConversations.com and offered to mediate the negotiations.

Mom and Dad were Elizabeth and Rob, respectively. The son’s name was Blaine.

Blaine was fervently explaining to his father that the sunglasses he wanted were going to help his golf game. I interjected that the sunglasses didn’t hug his face and had gaps that would allow distracting light to wreak havoc with his peripheral vision, especially when making a full shoulder turn.

Blaine parried this challenge by simulating a golf swing and turning his left shoulder over his chin.

“I can see great!” exclaimed Blaine. “There’s no light coming through; these are perfect.”

Rob was unimpressed with Blaine’s contention. Elizabeth saw that a deadlock was ensuing and wisely glided over to the ladies’ performance outerwear department.

Blaine was adamant that the sunglasses would be an important addition to his golf game as well as to the emotional well-being of his family unit.

Faced with this inter-generational impasse, I decided that bold action was required on my part to prevent this wonderful family from being torn asunder. So I took Rob aside and murmured to him, sotto voce: “If he wants the sunglasses so badly, tell him to get an effin’ job!”

Rob nodded his head in agreement, recognizing the Talmudic sagacity of my admonition.

I then departed the pro shop, pleased and proud that I was able to help a family in crisis, the evil eye sent my way by Blaine notwithstanding.

The next morning, during breakfast at the Lodge, I ran into Elizabeth, Rob, and Blaine. Rob had a huge grin on his face, his countenance reflecting the joy of a man who had avoided paying $279 retail for a hunk of $3 polarized plastic made in China.

A half hour later, I spied this nuclear golf family in the lobby. Blaine was sporting some sunglasses that his father had given him, not the shades he had been coveting in the pro shop. We all wished each other luck and good golfing, and parted company.

An hour later, I was at the practice range, rifling 2-iron stingers, when who did I see? Yes! Elizabeth, Rob, and Blaine!

The Stalker Family: Elizabeth, Blaine & Rob

Suddenly I was gripped with fear: was this golf family stalking me? Later that evening, I emailed the above photo to my contacts at the USGA. They responded with the following excerpt:

“Family is well-known throughout the U.S. for taking golf vacations. Rob, aka “Big Daddy,” hits a long ball but often coats his driver with Vaseline to prevent hooking. Elizabeth, aka “Banzai Betty,” plays an aggressive game and has been known to wrestle alligators in the lake surrounding the island green at TPC Sawgrass. Blaine, aka “Made In The Shade,” collects sunglasses from America’s most prestigious golf resort pro shops and sells them on eBay.”

Armed with this intell, I confronted the threesome the next day in the parking lot as they were preparing to depart the resort for Chambers Bay near Seattle.

“Excuse me,” I said. “Don’t take this the wrong way but are you guys stalking me?”

“Oh, not at all,” replied Elizabeth. “We heard that you were here doing a piece for your web site and I guess we were drawn to you because you’re a bright, shining star in the golf media firmament.”

Yet another reason to love Bandon Dunes: it attracts sensitive and perceptive people who recognize greatness when they see it. Thank you for your kind words, E. By all means, get Blaine those sunglasses … and send the bill to Golf Digest.

Home on the Range

Range rats will love the Practice Center at Bandon Dunes. There are two driving ranges, each one the size of Rhode Island. There’s also a huge short game area where you can avoid practicing your chipping, pitching, and sand play. And the aircraft carrier-sized putting green is a celebration of links undulation.

I made the acquaintance of a gentleman named Tom who helps take care of the range. Tom is a local school teacher who professes to “know nothing about golf.”  Tom kept me supplied with range balls and pleasant conversation:

The Practice Center is also home to an 18-hole pitch-and-putt course. It’s a great place to work on your short game, and it’s free.

Shuttle vans stop continuously at the Practice Center to ferry you to anywhere at the resort. And no matter where you’re headed, it’s never more than a 5-minute ride.

Dining

I was on a budget so I didn’t sample any of the “finer” cuisine at the resort. McKee’s Pub had delicious burgers, meat loaf, and other goodies.

The Gallery Restaurant was my home for breakfast and hot damn, they had the best French Toast I’ve ever sampled! The Gallery Restaurant has a splendid view of the Bandon Dunes golf course. Next door is the Tufted Puffin Lounge where I lunched one day on macaroni and cheese. Yum!

This is links golf with delicious American food. Thankfully, there’s no haggis in sight!

Bye-Bye, Bandon Dunes

Some travel advice: the mornings are often foggy and departing flights out of Southwest Oregon Regional Airport are often delayed. So give yourself plenty of time to make your connecting flight from either San Francisco or Portland.

Because my United Express flight to San Francisco was 90 minutes late, I had only 30 minutes to make my connection at the US Airways terminal. I was literally running through the airport and hadn’t the time to request a full-body search when I went through Security.

Regarding the OTH to SFO flight, the aircraft was really tiny. So tiny that four passengers and their luggage were removed from the flight because the plane couldn’t handle the extra weight. So be sure to check in early and get your boarding pass the day before at the computer center at the Lodge.

The Kaiser

“Kaiser” is the German term for “Emperor.” And if anyone should be anointed the “Emperor of Links Golf,” it should be Mike Keiser. Thus, from this point forward, please refer to this man as “Kaiser Keiser.” (I promised you “sucking up.” That was it.)

But seriously, thanks to all at Bandon Dunes Golf Resort for an unforgettable experience at one of golf’s most magical places. I can’t wait to go back!

Needless to say, I give Bandon Dunes Golf Resort my highest rating of FIVE BALATAS!

*************************************

Bandon Dunes Photo Gallery

"Ah, the shots I left out there."

The Lodge

Kristin on Shore Duty

"Ask not for whom the bell tolls..."

Kristin sitting down on the job

There's Room at The Inn

My Bag (Kristin ORDERED me to remove the headcovers!)

The Side Entrance to The Lodge

Sunset at Bandon Dunes

Robert Blumenthal: Lakeside at Bandon Trails

The Starter's Shed at Bandon Dunes

Puffin Ball Markers

N

Mark Reid at the Reverse Osmosis Plant

Mark Reid: I had the opportunity at Breakers West to caddy for Arnold Palmer three years ago. He had a corporate event there. It was one of the best experiences of my life. I spent five hours with the man. The stories that he talked about! The general interest he had in me … my father was a golf course superintendent and Mr. Palmer’s dad was a golf course superintendent. It was pretty cool.

Golf Conversations: How did he play?

MR: He was very frustrated with his golf game. He can’t do what he used to be able to do, obviously.

GC: He’s 82 – God bless him that he’s still out there.

MR: He flew down in his plane. It was impressive.

GC: The tour could learn a lot from him just by the way he interacts with the fans.

MR: The kid that won yesterday [Editor's note: Keegan Bradley won the PGA Championship the previous day.] … I think that’s a good win for golf. Here’s a rookie, he has that youthful exuberance that Dufner showed nothing of at all.

But if that excitement doesn’t return … it’s very hard for a family man to take five hours out of his day to play golf.

GC: You bet.

MR: And the expectations for golf courses conditions now are just unbelievable.

GC: Thank you, Augusta National.

MR: Yeah. The Augusta Syndrome. So many superintendents get fired the week after Augusta, it’s not even funny.

GC: That’s terrible. And un-American. They should be fired the week before Christmas.

(laughter)

MR: I’ve been up to Augusta once. It’s the Mecca – it’s the end-all and be-all for a superintendent because it’s perfect. There’s nothing wrong with the place.

GC: I think the pimento cheese sandwiches could be bigger.

(laughter)

When you have unlimited money, you can make it perfect. But whose got unlimited money?

MR: Nobody now.

GC: Certainly not a local club or a municipal course. And most of the golfers are so terrible anyway; they’re shooting 105. Where do they come off saying, “This course is like a goat track?”

MR: What’s the difference if the greens are 8½ to somebody shooting those sorts of numbers compared to 10? Nothing. It’s probably a lot easier for them at lower speeds. And a lot more fun. Play from a distance that’s comfortable for you. Why beat yourself in the head because of a yardage number?

Just like this little golf course right here. I think we’re 6100 yards from the back. But it’s brutal.

GC: It’s tighter than Tiger Woods.

(laughter)

MR: I’m a huge fan of Rees Jones. What he’s done at that facility for us out at Breakers West as far as catering to so many different abilities of golf. Rees is a phenomenal architect. The 6 months we spent out West with Rees were pretty cool. I won’t say he wasn’t difficult to work with at times. But it was just a few times when we kind of butted heads but that’s healthy in architecture.

GC: And, of course, you came out on top each time so that’s all that matters.

(laughter)

MR: It’s a great facility out there. It was a shame you got what you got yesterday.

GC: What did I get? Because it was “cart paths only”?  Because there was a tropical downpour the night before? Oh, big deal!!!

MR: That’s not what we try to present to guests.

GC: I know you can control your Sunday Brunch but you can’t control the weather. I didn’t care! I was out on a beautiful golf course; it was pretty, palm trees were swaying. I was happy as a stone crab.

MR: Beautiful.

GC: I’m not one of these nuts that get picky about course conditions.

MR: But I hate seeing my golf course presented …

GC: I know you do. But it’s nature.

MR: Yeah, three inches of rain, mate.

GC: The course was fabulous. I read these Golf Digest course ratings. I don’t know who these guys are…

MR: Where the hell do they come up with those numbers?

GC: “Shot values?”  Ok, if you’re a 3, a 5, a scratch player … maybe that means something to you. But for the average golfer – and certainly for the average resort course golfer …

MR: And we get some doozies out here, mate.

GC: “Shot values?” Give me a break, will you??? Go out and play and have a good time and spare me the bull shit.

MR: The “play and have a good time” is getting lost.

GC: Getting back to the tees, Barney Adams convinced me to move up and play at shorter distances. I was tired of having these 195-yard second shots with fairway woods. So at your Rees Jones course yesterday, I went up to the gold tees…

MR: Yup, I think it’s 6700 yards.

GC: It was very nice; I really enjoyed myself. I played with Tony Nelson, your Director of Risk Management.

MR: Super nice guy. He does a super job for us.

GC: He gave me the code for the office safe …

MR: Fabulous. We’ll visit that when we’re done here.

GC: I need someone on the inside.

(laughter)

MR: I don’t do anything inside! I’m an outside guy: I cut the grass and trim the hedges!

GC: Yeah, I guess you’d look suspicious inside the hotel.

(laughter)

Robert Blumenthal at the Reverse Osmosis Plant

How many outside guys do you have working here?

MR: We’ve got 70 guys between the two golf courses and the grounds department. And we’re lucky to have good people because there’s a lot of territory to cover. A lot of nooks and crannies.

GC: I have a little suggestion for you.

MR: Throw it at me.

GC: You tell me if it’s crazy. But this idea will save you millions of dollars a year in labor costs, fertilizer costs…

MR: Artificial grass?

GC: You’ve heard this story before?

MR: No, I haven’t.

GC: Yeah, Astroturf.

(laughter)

You could be the first resort course with Astroturf…

(laughter)

…and have lights along the fairways so you can play 24 hours a day. With a windmill on one of the holes.

MR: And a clown face?

GC: Why not?

(laughter)

But seriously, I had a lot of fun today on the Ocean Course. Yes, it’s very tight. And once you hit a ball into the high grass, it’s gone. You can’t even look for it, much less find it.

MR: A little story on the high grass. When I came on board in ’03, the high grass wasn’t here. It was just a big parkland – you’d look across at the vista and you’d just see all golf course. Then we came in with a plan to put in the native grasses to lower our maintenance costs, lower the fertilizer and chemical costs.

But also, we framed up the holes so you could separate them. You have a little more intimacy whereas before it was wide open. It’s really been received pretty well … except for the gentleman or the lady that hits the ball in there quite often. And yeah, there is no going in there to find those balls.

GC: You know what you do? When guests check in at the pro shop, you ask them what their handicap is. If it’s higher than a 5, you don’t allow them to buy Pro V1s. Just sell them the used balls you’ve fished out of the pond.

MR: But where is the golf course superintendent going to get his golf balls?

(laughter)

GC: So how the hell do you get in there … with machetes?

MR: We trim ‘em once a year.

GC: And 2,000 golf balls pour out!

MR: Which is next month. So right now, they’re packed with golf balls.

GC: So what happens a month from now when you’re trimming the grass, and the golf balls come out? What happens to those golf balls?

MR: Ultimately, the Pro V1s and Callaways are separated into a bucket, given to golf course maintenance, and the rest are thrown in the fairway and the rough and the members pick them up when they find them.

GC: Any scuba-diving thing going on in the lakes?

MR: Yes, once a month we have a company that comes out. I think they give us something like 1500 bucks a month to harvest the golf balls from the water. Or maybe it’s 500. But they pull some big old sacks of balls out of the place. We’ve got some water moccasins out West; I wouldn’t be swimming in those waters.

GC: Let’s talk a little bit about reverse osmosis. When I first heard about it, I thought it was some kind of putting grip.

(laughter)

You’re taking water from the aquifer, 1500 feet below the surface…

MR: Unusable water. The quality of the water that comes out of the Florida aquifer is about 7000 parts per million salts. So if you were to use that water to irrigate the golf course and grounds, you’d be done. Dead, dead, dead. Bring in the Astroturf.

(laughter)

So we take the water, put it through our reverse osmosis system, and when it’s done, it’s 228 parts per million, which is very useful.

GC: Is that potable?

MR: I don’t think they call it potable because we don’t remove the sulfur.

GC: Put a little vodka in it, that will take care of the sulfur.

(laughter)

Come on, you’ve drunk worse than that!

MR: Without a doubt!

(laughter)

But 2000 is when they installed the reverse osmosis system here. Prior to that, we were on city water so we were getting a pretty big bill every month. Now we’re getting 500,000 gallons a month and in four years we haven’t used any city water.

GC: And that water that you pump up gets put into a lake?

MR: It’s put into a lined pond. You play over it on Number 1 and you play over it on Number 18.

GC: Oh, the two holes that I eagled!

MR: Nice!

(laughter)

The plant was put in the exact same time as the golf course renovation. We don’t run the system all the time, just on an as-need basis. So if the pond is full, we don’t run the system. We have the ability to make about 180 million gallons annually. Over the last five years, on average, we’ve produced between 89 and 95 million gallons annually.

GC: That’s just for this course, the Ocean Course?

MR: This course and the grounds department. All the grounds: the bungalows, the tennis courts, around the hotel itself. Everything is on reverse osmosis.

GC: But not in the hotel?

MR: Oh, no! Not the hotel!

GC: Because after dinner last night, I detected kind of a sulfur smell. It must have been those figs I had for dessert at the Italian restaurant.

(laughter)

The best damn dessert I ever had, by the way. So what do you do at Breakers West for irrigation?

MR: Breakers West is all surface water. The Florida aquifer is not available that far inland. It’s only the barrier courses that have it. Breakers West has wells and the rest is Mother Nature. And we’ve got a big body of water there into which you probably hit a lot of your balls.

GC: Hey! Watch it, mate!

(laughter)

Ok, now I’m going to impress you with my knowledge of golf course maintenance terms.

MR: Ok.

GC: Papsallum grass?

(laughter)

Stop laughing. How do you pronounce it? Pap smear, Pabst Blue Ribbon?

MR: Try Paspalum!

GC: They grow that at the Ocean Course at Kiawah. Maybe Sea Island as well. Two resorts that have welcomed me with open arms, I’ll have you know.

MR: Paspalum is called the “Environmental Grass.” It takes more fungicides, takes more water; why they call it the “Environmental Grass” is bloody beyond me. Because it’s a pain to grow.

GC: Is it?

MR: Oh, my goodness. It’s not resistant to anything. It takes a lot of inputs. Very thatch heavy, very insect-y.

GC: Insect-y?  What kind of technical term is that?

(laughter)

MR: It means it gets a lot of bloody insects!

(laughter)

GC: Yeah, I know that. But I figured from a professional I’d get something a little more scientific than insect-y! So tell me how you got into the business.

MR: My father was a golf course superintendent. He retired three years ago; he was a superintendent for 45 years in Australia. So I grew up living on golf courses. I always thought that I would never do that because dad’s at work too much and dad’s never home.

Then one day a friend of his that was a superintendent asked me if I was interested in getting into the industry.

GC: Where in Australia was this?

MR: About an hour and a half south of Melbourne. Barwon Heads is where I did my apprenticeship. I spent four years there and got a couple of awards. My eldest brother is a superintendent as well. He’s now in Vietnam. So mom and dad have kids all over the world.

Ohio State was running a global internship where Australian kids can come over and learn a little bit about the American industry.

Mark Reid

GC: You went to Columbus, Ohio?

MR: We went to Columbus and then as interns we were sent to our host facilities. My host facility was Bear Lakes Country Club in Florida. I was only meant to be there for twelve months and go home. But I met my wife during that first six months and thought this was a pretty good place to be for a little while. Then I got the assistant’s position at Bear Lakes; was there for a few years.

GC: That’s a Nicklaus course?

MR: Yes, he’s got 36 holes over there. Then I left there for another assistant’s job in Jupiter.

GC: What year did you come here from Australia?

MR:’95.

GC: When did you come here?

MR: I came to The Breakers as the superintendent for the Ocean Course. I proved myself at that level and they gave me the other 18 and I became the head golf course superintendent over the two facilities. And last year they gave me the Director of Golf and Grounds. So now I run the Grounds Department and both golf departments.

GC: So you’re taking care of the flora by the restaurants and the pools?

MR: Everything. If it grows, it’s us. I don’t do it by myself, obviously. I’m surrounded by very, very good people.

GC: When you first met your wife, did she know you were growing papsiclle pops?

(laughter)

MR: She had no idea what she was getting herself in for! Golf course superintendents – we live what we do. When you manage a living entity, there’s no, “It’s 5 o’clock, time to go home.”

She has done a phenomenal job dealing with me for as long as she has. We’ll be married 15 years, the end of this month.

GC: Indeed. I’ve been with you a half hour and I can barely take you.

(laughter)

Do you like living here in the US of A?

MR: Love living here. And this place is very unique. It’s a family atmosphere. I have dealt with the same greens committee for the 8 years that I’ve been here. The company understands that there are things that have to be done: you have to aerify, you’ve got to close facilities, you’ve got to give us time to do our job. This is the best thing I ever did.

GC: One of the execs was telling me about the large percentage of employees who’ve been here a very long time.

MR: The tenure is off the chart here. It’s unbelievable. When I interviewed here, I was introduced to people who’ve been here 20, 25, 30, 40 years. The president of the company knows every one of the employees by name. Knows their families and takes an interest in the well-being of every one of the team members.

And the Kenan family … I’ll see Mr. Kenan and he’ll say to me, “How you doing, Mark … what’s going on?” You know you’re in a special place. [Editor's note: The Kenan family owns The Breakers.]

GC: Tell me what the average golfer doesn’t understand about maintaining a golf course.

MR: Cart travel. I think people think that driving a cart doesn’t do any damage. Ultimately, when you’re “cart path only” and you give the turf a rest, it recuperates and looks good again.

It’s also cleaning up after themselves: divots, pitch marks, all the little things that don’t seem to add up to much but they do. If those things aren’t repaired immediately, it takes so much longer for them to heal themselves.

And the big thing is aeration – and they understand that here. My theory on Bermuda grass is “treat it mean, keep it keen.” You’ve got to beat it up to make it good. It grows so much during the summertime that that’s when you have to aerify.

GC: How often does Bermuda need to be aerfied?

MR: We do it every five weeks in the summertime. We’ll be perfect from December all the way through to the end of the season. But in the summertime we’ve got to be given the reins. People think when it comes to grass, you put a little fertilizer on it, you put a little water on it. It used to be that way. But when you’re dealing with ultra-dwarfs and the mowing heights at the heights we mow, and the expectations on green speed … it takes a lot of inputs.

GC: You shouldn’t be discriminating against little people.

(laughter)

You should treat all the resort guests the same way; for you to be talking about “ultra-dwarfs,” I don’t understand that mentality.

(laughter)

And I’m sure if Mr. Kenan heard you talk that way, he wouldn’t be pleased.

MR: Let me call it Tif Eagle then. Does that sound better?

GC: Papsopopalis grass!

(laughter)

So you’ve worked your whole career in the States with Bermuda grass?

MR: All Bermuda. We had bent grass in Australia. Bent grass is something that you can lose overnight. You can’t kill Bermuda. You can’t. You can make some subtle mistakes and turn it south for a little while but it always comes roaring back.

GC: Please explain why, when you’re playing on Bermuda grass and you take a divot, you need to fill it with sand.

MR: Bermuda is a stoloniferous grass.

GC: What????

(laughter)

MR: Bermuda grass grows sideways. Bent grass grows upwards. With bent grass, you replace your divot because it has a root system. A root system doesn’t come out with a stoloniferous grass. All you’re doing is removing stolons.

GC: When you examine Bermuda grass to determine its health, do you perform a stolonoscopy?

(laughter)

MR: Bermuda grass grows across and when you fill the divot with sand, it creates a level lie. If you don’t fill it, it doesn’t grow back on a level lie and your ball will sit down lower.

GC: So when you put the sand in the divot, should you fill it up to the height of the grass and smooth it out with your foot?

MR: Absolutely. But ultimately, just fill it. Let’s not get carried away with levels because once the mower comes over it, it’s gonna level it off anyway. We’d rather it a little bit high than a little bit low.

GC: And what is the difference in terms of recovery: filling the divot with sand versus doing nothing?

MR: The sand will recover twice as fast. And it depends what growing season it is. If it’s winter time, the sand is not going to get covered over by turf until the spring time. And summertime, if you fill a divot properly, within a couple of weeks, you wouldn’t know there was a divot there.

GC: When I was at Pebble Beach for the AT&T, after the first round was over, the maintenance guys were walking the course and filling in all the divots. I think they have poapopandreaous grass there.

(laughter)

MR: Did you see Cypress Point while you were there?

GC: Yup. Had a bird’s-eye view. I rode in the MetLife Blimp.

MR: How cool was that???

GC: That was pretty damn cool. We were hovering over the 18^th fairway and I asked the pilot if we could fly over to the 16^th hole at Cypress.

MR: Jeff Markow’s place.

GC: Whose place?

MR: He’s the superintendent at Cypress. Jeff Markow.

GC: Oh? Good friend of yours?

MR: Jeff’s a friend. Good man. It’s a beautiful property.

GC: Hmmm. I think Jeff would be very happy if I went out there and he asked me to play Cypress Point.

MR: Very, very good piece of property. Oh! Gorgeous!

GC: I think Jeff would enjoy meeting me.

(laughter)

MR: You think?

(laughter)

Jeff’s a friend of my brother’s.

GC: I don’t care whose friend he is! Get on the horn!

MR: Good luck on that invite!

GC: You better start working on this after I leave, Mark.

(laughter)

So at Pebble Beach, the crew was what the course superintendent referred to as “blasting the divots.”

MR: “Blasting the divots”?

GC: You never heard that?

MR: That’s the first time for me. I learned something today. Today’s been a good day.

GC: You learned two things today: “Blasting the divots” and “Don’t ever let Blumenthal in my office again.” Mark, thanks for showing me your beautiful courses here at The Breakers. Good luck next month when you harvest those Pro V1s.

(laughter)

MR: You’re welcome. Thanks for coming by.

Dan St. Louis

Dan St. Louis: I just had dinner last week with Lexi Thompson. She’s the 16-year old from down here who could actually help save the LPGA, in my opinion. They finally came to their senses and allowed her an invitation to qualify through the system. And if she does so, they’re going to allow her to have her tour card two years earlier than the LPGA now permits.

[NOTE: Lexi Thompson won the Navistar LPGA Classic a month after this interview was conducted. A few weeks after that, she was granted membership in the LPGA Tour.]

They also allowed Ginger Howard – a 17-year old young lady – and Victoria Tanco who’s also 17 – to go through the same process. And at the first stage of tour school, Lexi won and Ginger was fourth amongst 150 players … over half of whom were professionals. Lexi won by 12: 66,66,66,67.

Golf Conversations: What the hell happened in the last round?

DSL: Well, she made a bogey. She made one bogey in four days.

GC: Jan Stephenson got into a lot of trouble a few years ago when she said the Asians were killing the LPGA Tour. A lot of what she said was true. If you just spent $5000 for a pro-am spot and you’re playing with one of these young girls that can’t speak English…

DSL: I agree.

GC: But you know what? You’ve got the same thing on the PGA Tour except…

DSL: They speak English. They’re just rude!

(laughter)

GC: They’re just rude!

DSL: But their tour doesn’t seem to be hurting at all.

GC: When this economic problem started a year and a half ago, Greg Norman came out and said, “You guys should be playing for less money.”

DSL: Yeah, that went over big.

GC: Speaking of Lexi Thompson, I interviewed a teaching pro you might know: Barry Goldstein.

DSL: Oh, of course, yeah. His daughter’s a good player. My daughter’s doing the same thing. She just went through the first phase of tour school also.

GC: Oh, wonderful!

DSL: I’ve been following the girls and caddying for my daughter now for 5-7 years. She’s older than they are but they have more experience than she does. So I know all these kids.

GC: Barry told me about his daughter Carly Ray who plays very well.

DSL: Very well.

GC: I offered to be her caddy when she graduates from college and he said there’s a long list of people with the same idea.

(laughter)

Tell me about your daughter.

DSL: Her name’s Tovi. Tovi St. Louis.

GC: Tovi. What an interesting name.

DSL: With the name “St. Louis,” my wife and I said, “We’ve got to come up with something unique for her.”

GC: You should have called her “Kansas City.”

(laughter)

DSL: My wife’s name is “K.C.”

GC: No!

(laughter)

DSL: K.C. St. Louis.

GC: When your wife first met you, she must have thought, “If I marry this guy, this is going to be a weird geographical union.”

DSL: She called me “Mo.” I didn’t get it; no one ever called me “Mo” before. She finally had to say, “Missouri, you dummy.” First time we met.

GC: Was she a golfer?

DSL: No. Still isn’t. And Tovi wasn’t a golfer until she was 15.

GC: Come on!

DSL: I was an all-around sports guy, lettered in four sports. I wanted her to be able to play whatever she wanted to play. She loved tennis – she was the state champ at 11.

GC: Wonderful.

DSL: Then she quit tennis because she couldn’t stand the girls cheating all the time. Because they called their own lines calls. So she’d go out there and beat these girls and they’d call balls out and she just got sick of it.

She said, “I don’t want to work that hard and have someone cheat, it’s not worth it.” That’s what got her into golf: it’s all her, the rules are the rules. After volleyball, after basketball, after all these other sports she played, she decided to take up golf.

GC: At 15?

DSL: Yeah. Freshman in high school.

GC: How did she get into it?

DSL: She said, “Dad, I want to start playing.” She always came with me to the golf course, ever since she was 3. Whenever I was playing with my buddies in the afternoon, she’d always come and drive the cart. Kids and carts – I always made golf fun. She didn’t have to touch a club if she didn’t want to.

So she always saw golf pros playing. And when she picked up a golf club at 15, she swung just like we did.

GC: Osmosis. Oh, man!

DSL: It was amazing. It was unbelievable.

GC: Would you adopt me?

(laughter)

Is it too late for me?

(laughter)

DSL: It might be too late.

(laughter)

The thing my daughter’s got going for her is that she can hit her 7-iron 160.

GC: Oh, God.

DSL: Yeah. At tour school, these girls are hitting hybrids and she’s hitting a 7-iron. She just doesn’t have the experience yet. She missed the cut by one, by the way.

GC: Too bad. But to start at that late age … so she’s got a world of potential.

DSL: Yeah, we have our fingers crossed.

GC: And she’s got those St. Louie genes.

(laughter)

DSL: She’s got St. Louie genes alright.

GC: But “Tovi.” That’s a real interesting name.

DSL: Yeah. They never get it right. Even when we spell it for them. But she’s doing well. She’s the third-ranked amateur in Florida so they’re starting to get her name right.

GC: That’s fabulous. So you didn’t have to take her out to the practice tee and say, “Honey, you’ve got to pronate your whoozis?”

DSL: We did little things like that but basically she was a natural. She didn’t take a lot of coaching.

GC: The fact that she could just pick it up like that and be a natural …

DSL: Yeah, that was pretty cool.

GC: … don’t take this the wrong way but I hate your daughter.

(laughter)

DSL: A lot of people do. Don’t worry.

(laughter)

And she’s only 5’2” and she bombs it. She hits it as far as I do now.

GC: You must be very proud. What kind of clubs is she playing these days?

DSL: She’s a TaylorMade girl. She just got finished at The Kingdom up at Reynolds Plantation. I don’t know if you’ve ever had the opportunity to go there but supposedly it’s awesome. I didn’t go with her but I wish I had.

GC: I was at “The Kingdom” in Carlsbad where I met Jim Flick. He was such a nice guy. After about 20 minutes, he apologized and told me that he had a lesson to get to. So I gave him my business card with the photo of Wolfie, my dog, on the back. His eyes lit up and he said, “Oh, man! You have to see Charlie!”

All of a sudden the lesson could wait. He took me into his office and shows me photos of his dog.

(laughter)

But I did go through the fitting process at The Kingdom. I was wearing reflective clothing. Strobe lights and cameras were flashing as I hit the ball. It was cool. I have some video of it on my web site.

I went through their fitting process again a few months ago in Palm Desert. Son of a gun if they didn’t recommend an R11 for me.

DSL: What a surprise.

GC: And I said, “No, I want a driver without a tool kit.”

(laughter)

I have enough crap going on in my head without worrying about turning wrenches.

(laughter)

So how did you get started in golf?

DSL: I grew up in Maine, a northern Maine guy. I also didn’t play golf until I was 15.

GC: Another one! You St. Louies have dormant golf genes!

(laughter)

DSL: A friend asked me to go play. I played five times on a little par-3 golf course that summer. Fell in love with it. The next summer, I played every day from sunup to sundown. Played 103 holes a day, every day on this par-3 course.

GC: When you play 103 holes a day, do you go through the pre-shot routine for every shot?

DSL: I didn’t know anything about that back then. I just couldn’t get the tee in the ground fast enough to hit it!

(laughter)

GC: We need more players like you!

(laughter)

And then by 18, I was scratch in Maine.

GC: Holy cow!

DSL: So, obviously, God said, “You’re meant to play golf.”

GC: “Yea, let a new scratch golfer go forth in the land.” And so it came to be.

(laughter)

DSL: I went to college and won everything in Maine. My college coach sat me down after my sophomore year and threw me out of the state. And I kiss him every time I see him.

GC: He threw you out of the state?

DSL: He said, “Son, you need to get out of here. You’ve got some talent and you need to go south where you can play all year.”

GC: Which school were you going to in Maine?

DSL: Husson College in Bangor, Maine. He helped me; we found FAU down here in Boca. Came down completely blind. I was married at the time; I got married at 18.

GC: To K.C.?

DSL: Not to K.C. I married my high school sweetheart right after we graduated. We packed up everything we had in a U-Haul, got on I-95 and kept going ‘till it ended.

GC: And came to Boca Raton: “Mouth of the Rat.”

DSL: Without a scholarship, just an interview with the coach. Played with the coach, played well. She gave me a scholarship. I was in school for a week and a half; my wife couldn’t take Florida, she wanted to move back to Maine. She had that disease where you can’t leave the house.

GC: Agoraphobia?

DSL: Yeah. She couldn’t leave the house.

GC: Oh, poor thing.

DSL: But I was thinking, “I’m not going back to Maine.” I met a friend who was the pro at Sherbrooke – it hadn’t even opened yet. Sherbrooke Country Club in Lake Worth. Got a job there.

GC: I interviewed Bob Toski there.

DSL: Then you know where I’m talking about. So I started working on the golf course the next morning at 6:30 cutting grass. I started on the maintenance crew, moved into the bag room, stayed on the maintenance crew for five years. Played the mini-tours. Played the Goosie.

GC: J.C.?

DSL: Yeah. Russ Cochran, Azinger, they were all playing there. It was a great learning tool. Great competition.

GC: You had to put up your own money.

DSL: Yeah, that’s how I got into the club pro business because there wasn’t any money!

(laughter)

So I became a club pro and I’ve been here 35 years now.

GC: So you started when you were 10?

DSL: Well, ahhh, I appreciate that.

GC: Alright, that’s enough b.s.!

(laughter)

When you were at Florida Atlantic, did you stay there for two more years?

DSL: No, I quit school after a week and a half. My wife couldn’t leave the house and I wasn’t going back to Maine. The plan was for her to work, me to get a part-time job, play golf, and figure it out. But we ran out of money; we came down here with very little to begin with. And I could tell when I got to Florida, this was the place for me.

I got here in September. 92 degrees and humid and I LOVED it! Absolutely fell in love with the weather.

GC: Let’s compare Florida to Maine: Stone crabs vs. lobsters?

DSL: No comparison. Lobster’s still number one.

GC: I just came from the buffet at The Breakers. They had lobster, Alaskan King Crab, shrimp the size of your fist.

DSL: What don’t they have? Amazing, isn’t it?

GC: I brought some lobster here in my briefcase.

(laughter)

If you could get us some drawn butter from the kitchen, we can have a little snacky-poo.

(laughter)

What year did you leave Florida Atlantic?

DSL: 1977.

GC: How did it feel playing your first professional tournament on the Goosie tour?

DSL: I got paired with a gentleman named Steve Sieg who is now the head professional at Navesink in New Jersey. It was his first day playing pro golf also.

GC: How did it feel?

DSL: We both birdied our first hole and neither one of us broke 80. But we’re still best friends, so that’s my Goosie story.

GC: So you’ve been at a couple of clubs down here?

DSL: Only about three, that’s it. I was in Wellington for 20 years. Then I went to Landmark and got the chance to play with Gil Morgan, Fred Couples, and Bob Tway.

GC: Anyone I would have heard of?

(laughter)

DSL: I stayed there for seven years. I was next in line to get their next head pro job when RTC came in and shut them down. And I was fortunate enough that this job opened up in 1994. So I’ve been here 17 years.

GC: When did this golf course open?

DSL: It originally opened in ’68. Willard Byrd was the original designer. It was a par-71, 7100-yard golf course. In that time, that was outrageously long. No homes, it was a complete wilderness out there. Okeechobee was a two-lane road. It was The Breakers Hotel golf course for guests and a few members.

GC: Oh, back then it was owned by The Breakers?

DSL: Yes.

GC: And when did Rees Jones come in and re-design it?

DSL: In 2004. Actually, the course was kind of chopped up over the course of time. When they decided to develop the place, they had to build a clubhouse. And to build the clubhouse, they had to move some golf holes around. So Joe Lee came in and re-designed 2, 8, and 9 to accommodate the entrance road.

But in ’04, The Breakers basically re-built an entire golf course. They ripped up all the drainage, all the irrigation, all the cart paths, scraped the fairways 8-12 inches, tested the soil, built huge bury pits. They buried all the old grass, buried the cart paths, buried everything.

GC: Buried the first wives?

(laughter)

Ok, let’s keep moving on.

DSL: Put in all new drainage, all new irrigation, and a whole new footprint. And to be honest with you: the old course was good but the new course is phenomenal. It’s amazing what a great job Rees Jones did. All the South Florida PGA pros love this golf course.

The maintenance crew keeps this place tour quality every day. The greens are 11, 12 on the Stimpmeter every day. You could host a tour event here on a day’s notice.

GC: Yeah, but you don’t have enough room to park all the Mercedes courtesy cars for the players.

(laughter)

How would you compare this course to the other Breakers course, the Ocean Course?

DSL: It’s pretty hard to do that. The Ocean Course is the oldest 18-hole course in the state of Florida.

GC: I didn’t know that.

DSL: Who you been talking to over there?

(laughter)

GC: I’ve been here for an hour and a half! I had brunch and came over here. You’re the first person I’ve talked to – give me a break!

(laughter)

DSL: What our superintendent, Mark Reid, has done to the Ocean Course, is amazing.

GC: I think I’m meeting him tomorrow.

DSL: Yes, you are.

GC: There are no secrets here; everybody knows my business!

(laughter)

DSL: They sent me an email with your schedule, of course.

GC: Oh, really? Did they mention when I usually like to go to the toilet?

(laughter)

Pass on that one. Continue.

DSL: Ok. Before Brian Silva re-designed the Ocean Course, it used to be four quadrants. You’d come into one quadrant and all you’d see is wide-open green space with some stick pines. And every hole would go back and forth and then you’d go to the next quadrant. So it was very boring.

And now, when you stand on the first tee, all you’re gonna see is the first hole. Mark Reid has framed every hole with native grasses … and he’s done it here also. And it looks like it’s been here forever.

GC: The mark of a great golf course: it looks like it’s a natural part of the landscape.

DSL: The course might be short but it’s very difficult. It’s not an easy golf course.

GC: You know what? I’m very happy with “short.” “Short” is good. Play it forward, dudes. Why would you want to keep hitting hybrids and fairway woods into every hole?

DSL: Pete Dye once told me that golfers love pain; they’re masochists.  He said, “Danny, you can’t make them hard enough. People like pain when they play golf, they like to suffer.”

GC: I don’t agree with that.

DSL: I don’t either.

GC: I think it’s more of a male ego thing.

DSL: I see it with my membership. Why would you want to play par-4s you can’t reach … ever? I don’t know.

GC: That’s why I disagree with Mr. Dye when he says the golfer likes pain.

DSL: But that mindset is changing. Without question. We’re losing golfers. We as professionals and people like yourself – writers – we have to make people understand that they should have fun. And they’re not gonna have fun if they can’t ever reach a par-4 in two.

GC: That’s right.

DSL: Go up to where you can actually feel like you’re playing the game of golf and that you’re actually accomplishing something. You can go home and pat yourself on the back, “Wow, I did pretty good today.”

GC: “I had three pars!”

DSL: Exactly.

GC: “I had a birdie.”

DSL: And you had a birdie because you made a putt. Not because you holed a 50-yard wedge.

(laughter)

I think we’re losing golfers because modern architects are making every new course they build difficult. Nobody’s building golf courses that are fair and fun and easy.

GC: And easy. Too many golf courses are concerned about what Golf Digest is going to say. How the course is going to be rated.

DSL: One thing Rees did here, he’s given every hole a run-up area. So if you play the appropriate tee here, you can play this golf course and it can be fair.

GC: How many teeing areas do you have?

DSL: Five.

GC: Do you have one forward of the ladies tee that I could play?

(laughter)

DSL: Yeah, the 150-yard marker.

(laughter)

I’m sure you’ll play ok.

GC: I started the game too late in life. That’s why I’d like you to adopt me.

(laughter)

I’ll hang out with you and your buddies and your daughter and maybe I’ll improve by osmosis.

(laughter)

Hey, when you went from being a player to a club pro, how did you learn how to be a golf instructor?

DSL: That’s a very good question. It was a lot different then than it is now.

GC: Of course, back then you had the hickory shafts and the gutta percha balls.

(laughter)

Robert Blumenthal & Dan St. Louis

DSL: Now with the availability of machines, machines basically teach, computers teach. Now it’s more communication skills. You don’t have the naked eye anymore trying to pick up flaws.

When I was teaching 30 years ago, it was all ball-flight laws. Without video cameras stopping every half second to see where the club face was. The only thing you had was the ball flight.

GC: But I’m curious how you went from being a natural player who didn’t really get instruction as a junior to a club pro who then had to communicate with golfers and teach them.

DSL: I really didn’t know how to teach when I started, to be honest with you.

GC: Can you refund any of that money to those people?

(laughter)

DSL: Back then, we weren’t getting paid enough to refund anything!

(laughter)

And you can always help somebody to get better because everybody was so bad!

(laughter)

GC: Well that hasn’t changed, has it?

DSL: But I’ve always taught in a very simple manner. I’m not a complicated person. Golf’s a pretty simple game. It’s just a very difficult, physical move to do. But in theory, it’s not difficult. You’ve got some motor skills, you’ve got some hands, you’ve got to square the club up at the proper angle of approach.

GC: Hands, hands?????

DSL: Don’t get me started with these guys who try to teach people not to play golf with hands.

GC: Hands??? Blasphemy! What about those BIG muscles??? You keep your hands and wrists out of the swing, fella. It’s the BIG muscles and don’t forget it!

DSL: Not me, pal!

(laughter)

GC: So if someone comes to The Breakers to play golf, which course should he/she/it play first?

DSL: I would start with the Ocean Course first to get a feel for Florida golf. Because most of our guests aren’t from Florida. Get used to the turf and the grass – Bermuda grass is a completely different game, compared to bent.

The biggest difference is in the short game. In Florida, you can’t chip and run through the fringe. You pretty much have to land on the green. You can’t trust what the Bermuda grass is going to do to a bounce.

GC: What I find difficult about Bermuda is when you hit it in the rough, it gets sucked down into the grass and you can’t find your ball.

DSL: It settles down to the ground, yes.

GC: Well, I’m looking forward to playing your course today. Hey, you know, my parents live about a mile from here.

DSL: Is that right?

GC: Yeah. Could I grab a couple of these Sweet ‘n’ Lows for my mother?

DSL: Absolutely. Our members do!

(laughter)

GC: What is it with that?

DSL: I don’t know.

(laughter)

GC: Dan, this has been a true pleasure spending some time with you. Thank you for your time and hospitality. And I wish your daughter, Tovi, all the best in her golfing career. And now, The Breakers Rees Jones Course awaits. Lead me to the 150-yard marker, sir!

(laughter)

The Breakers of Palm Beach

If Michelangelo had been a golfer, he would have stayed at The Breakers.

He would have taken one look at the elegant and artistic surroundings – from the Renaissance-inspired architecture to the intricate frescoes on the ceilings to the peaceful outdoor courtyards and fountains – and sent the following message to Leonardo Da Vinci:

“Leon: The Breakers is our kind of place! Let’s book a Buddies Golf Trip!”

To all of you Renaissance Men and Women out there, I suggest you do the same. With the frost on the pumpkin in much of the world, a winter escape to The Breakers in sunny Florida would be just what your golf professional ordered.

My wife and I visited The Breakers in August, 2011 and it was fabulous! Michelle explored the beach, the pools and the Spa. She received a 90-minute massage but had trouble deciding which “therapy modality” to enjoy: Swedish, Thai, Harmony, Shiatsu, or Alfresco. I recommended the Alfresco because it sounded like it came with fettucini and why not have lunch with your massage?

Me? I was there to play the resort’s two golf courses: the Breakers Rees Jones Course and the Ocean Course.

“Go West, Young Man!”

The Breakers Rees Jones Course is located approximately 10 miles west of the resort. A complimentary shuttle whisked me to the course, and when I arrived there my clubs were waiting for me.

The Breakers Rees Jones Course

I popped into the pro shop and met with Director of Golf: Dan St. Louis. We had a fun interview in the clubhouse dining room. A nicer D.O.G. you’ll never meet, Dan gave me a brief history of the course. The Open Doctor himself, architect Rees Jones, was brought in a few years ago to add some length to the course and bring it up to contemporary standards.

Robert Blumenthal & Dan St. Louis

I interviewed Rees a few months later and he told me how important it was to make a golf course playable for everyone, not just scratch and tour players. If you leave your ego at the baggage carousel area of the Palm Beach Airport – and play from the proper set of tees – you’ll love every moment on this Rees Jones beauty.

Brimming with overconfidence after making par on the first hole, I had a relapse on the second hole as I ventured to double-bogey land. I won’t make excuses, but I thought I heard a weed whacker go off during one of my back swings.

At the third hole, a par-three, I waited for the foursome ahead of me to finish plumb-bobbing on the green. I tried to stay within the moment and not think about the Rigatoni Alla Vodka I was going to have for dinner that night. (I had explored The Breakers’ web site prior to my arrival and checked out the menus for all of their restaurants.)

When the third green cleared, I decided to cut a 2-iron over the lake to the traditional Sunday back-right pin placement. It was 135 to clear the water, 146 to the flag, and about 4 miles to the nearest Wal-Mart.

I opened my stance, opened the club face, and swung along my body line. It was the classic double-cross and my ball sailed towards Okeechobee Boulevard. Once again, I stayed within the moment and tossed my 2-iron into the lake. I proceeded to the ball drop area and pitched in for an apocryphal par.

After thrusting my illegal sand wedge into my golf bag, I noticed a twosome behind me on the third tee. The foursome up ahead wasn’t going anywhere so I waved up the two gentlemen on the tee.

After they holed their putts, I invited them to join me and we headed to the next tee. Introductions were made. One of my playing partners was Tony Nelson, Director of Risk Management at The Breakers. Tony’s friend was Dr. Pierre Dorsainvil, a physician specializing in Internal Medicine.

Tony Nelson & Dr. Pierre Dorsainvil

My heart sank when I discovered that “Director of Risk Management” was another term for “Director of Security.” And there was my wife, back at the hotel, stuffing Egyptian cotton towels into her suitcase!

Not wanting to risk being banned from playing the Ocean Course the next day, I sang like a canary and informed on my wife.

Tony graciously allayed my fears and remarked, “We’ve been watching your wife the moment she stepped foot on the property. Don’t worry, we won’t let her leave with any towels. Of course, Splenda packets are a different story.”

What a relief to hear those comforting words! The three of us proceeded to have a wonderful few hours together, dissecting the Rees Jones Course with surgical precision. I put on a clinic of retrieving balls from water hazards and impressed Tony and the good doctor with my ability to produce “Snowmen” (“8”s on the scorecard, for you non-golfers) in the August heat.

With just three holes to play, the sky suddenly darkened and lightning bolts were sent down from on high by mighty Zeus himself. (This meteorological myth was reported later that evening by WPTV’s “Storm Team 5.”) We had no choice but to scurry to the clubhouse and take shelter in the dining room.

A Summer Storm at the Rees Jones Course

I summoned the waitress and magnanimously offered to charge lunch to Tony’s employee account. But before I had a chance to peruse the wine list, Tony ordered a ginger ale and that was that.

Robert Blumenthal & Tony Nelson

Outside, the rain came down in sheets and it was clear that our round was kaput. The following vexing problem turned over in my mind: as The Breakers had kindly comped me for my golf, would I be viewed as unduly porcine if I requested a rain check?

I needed guidance on this issue and didn’t want to impose upon Tony and Doc. So I excused myself, went into the locker room, and visited the following web site on my iPhone: www.You’veGotSomeBigCojonesMister.com

After skimming through some readers’ forums, I came to the conclusion that requesting a rain check for a free round of golf would be the height of ingratitude, selfishness, and vulgarity. All excellent qualities for a reality TV show but bad form for a guest.

I returned to the table and bid farewell to Tony and Doc. Shuttling back to The Breakers as the windshield wipers furiously lashed back and forth, I was reminded yet again of the unique quality of the game of golf: I had just spent a few hours in the tranquil surroundings of nature with two “strangers” who soon became friends. And that’s good stuff indeed.

Next? The Ocean Course, Of Course!

Located in front of The Breakers hotel is its Ocean Course, the oldest 18-hole golf course in Florida. Built in 1896 by Alexander H. Findlay, the Ocean Course was designed for a game of golf that could not have anticipated today’s high-tech clubs and balls.

The Oldest 18-Hole Golf Course in FL

Thus, in 2000, golf course architect Brian Silva was hired to bring the Ocean Course into the 21^st century. There wasn’t much real estate available to lengthen the course; Silva tacked on just 200 extra yards. But he did make elevation changes, adjusted tee sizes and green slopes, fine-tuned fairway shapes, and a host of other important additions.

For you bombers out there who might sneer at the Ocean Course’s 6,167 yard length, know this: if you don’t find the fairway with your tee shot, most of the time your ball will disappear into some tropical vegetation, never to be found. So stuff that into your high ball-spin rates and launch angles!

The Ocean Course requires proper shot placement, courageous chipping, and a deft putting touch. Unfortunately, I displayed none of these characteristics during my round. But I enjoyed the lush surroundings as well as the views of the hotel and the Atlantic Ocean. I had a lot of fun playing most of this course but wouldn’t you know it, the sky darkened again around the 15^th hole and a ranger came out to inform me that lightning was in the area. I had to get off the course immediately lest I risk being fricasseed.

The Ocean Course Before the Storm

I decided to once again hold my ungrateful tongue regarding a rain check and returned to the clubhouse. A bit later, I paid a call on Aussie Mark Reid, the head golf course superintendent. Mark showed me the Ocean Course’s reverse osmosis plant, which takes relatively sane people and turns them into golfers.

Ok, let me start over: the reverse osmosis plant pumps salt water from an aquifer 1,100 feet below the surface and converts it into irrigation water for the Ocean Course. Which is but one of the dozens of “green” applications used at The Breakers on a daily basis.

Robert Blumenthal & Reverse Osmosis

I asked Mark about the gnarly tropical grasses that swallowed some of my golf balls. He said that a few times a year, they cut the grass back and out pop hundreds of balls. You know who gets to keep the Pro V1s? Take a guess, mate … and throw another shrimp on the barbie.

Head Course Superintendant Mark Reid

The Accommodations

There are few resorts left on earth like The Breakers. It’s an original, a one-of-a-kind, a true historical gem that has been lovingly cared for by a family, not a corporation.

Enter & Behold!

To turn into the main drive is to go back in time when true artisans erected stately hotels. The lobby has actual chairs and sofas where guests can sit and talk … or read … or check their email.

The Main Lobby at The Breakers

For a summary of the resort’s architectural features, this from The Breakers web site:

“Created in the Italian Renaissance-style, inspired by the magnificent Italian villas of the 1400s. Exterior: Twin Belvedere towers with graceful arches, patterned after the Villa Medici in Rome. Front drive: Re-designed and landscaped 1,040-foot main drive leads to Florentine Fountain patterned after the fountain at the Boboli Gardens in Florence. Main lobby: Inspired by the Great Hall of the Palazzo Carega (circa 1560) in Genoa.”

The resort is listed in the National Register of Historic Places … as well as being the recipient of AAA’s Five Diamond Award.

In addition to the two golf courses, The Breakers offers tennis, spa and fitness facilities, swimming pools, restaurants, shopping, and just about every luxurious amenity under the tropical sun.

As for the accommodations, take a look at our lovely oceanfront room:

Our Room at The Breakers

Nice digs, eh? And the management went out of their way to welcome us with a chocolate facsimile of the hotel:

The Breakers: Good Enough to Eat!

The “sand” was actually sugar and cinnamon. The chocolate “tuxedo”-covered strawberries were too pretty to eat … but we ate them anyway. I was touched by this thoughtful gift until I removed the chocolate roof and saw the following:

Chocolate-Covered Cash!

Egad, what was this? A cash bribe??? Frankly, I was shocked by this brazen attempt to compromise my journalistic integrity.

So let me assure my readers that money did not influence this review of The Breakers. Indeed, the comped golf was all I needed to make me a believer!

But if I may be serious for just a moment, our room was magnificent. Tastefully appointed and top-drawer all the way. A clock/radio with a port for your iPhone, a safe in the closet to stash my wife’s Splenda packets, a luxurious bathroom that was larger than my first apartment. If there wasn’t so much to do and see at the resort, I could have happily spent several days in the room ordering movies and room service.

Sunday Brunch

The Breakers boasts the mother of all Sunday brunches. And I mean THE mother! Brunch is served in The Circle, an elegant room that features 30-foot ceilings adorned with frescoes. Look up, and you’d almost think you were in the Sistine Chapel. Look out, and you see the Atlantic Ocean and the waves – or should I say, the breakers – lapping onto the shore.

The Circle

Then there’s the food … and more food. Chefs are on hand to serve you prime rib, chicken, king crab legs, shrimp, lobster tails, omelettes, pasta, etc., etc. And there are 30 different kinds of desserts that are as beautiful as they are delicious. My compliments to the pastry chefs!

(If you bring the kiddies with you to brunch, fear not: America’s favorite sugar-laden cereals are available to satisfy the little ones.)

The wait service during brunch is … well, you never have to wait for anything! As you might expect, this being Florida, the fresh-squeezed orange juice is superb. Champagne, mimosas, bellinis, whatever you want to quench your thirst, your friendly waiters and waitresses keep your flute glass filled. If you don’t gain two pounds during Sunday brunch at The Breakers, you’re doing something wrong.

I, of course, gained four pounds during brunch. The wife and I took a stroll around the grounds after our feast to get the lay of the land. I can’t stress enough how beautiful The Breakers is. It’s like being in a fine museum … but it’s warm and comfortable. It makes you feel good just to sit in the lobby and marvel at all of the beautiful architectural details and tapestries. They don’t make ‘em like this anymore, folks!

The Tapestry Room

Water, Water Everywhere

As you exit the south wing of the hotel, you pass through an elegant courtyard that leads you to the spa, the fitness center, five oceanfront swimming pools (including a lap pool), private bungalows, and a little thing called the Atlantic Ocean (with a half mile of private beach).

A Dedicated Lap Pool

I really have to get down on my hands and knees and thank The Breakers for creating their “Relaxation Pool,” which is “intended to provide a quiet oasis” for guests. NO CELL PHONES ARE ALLOWED!

Relax: No Cell Phones Allowed!

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Imagine: you can sit by the Relaxation Pool, enjoy the sun, read a book, take a snooze. All without having to listen to someone next to you blabbing on their cell phone:

“Yeah, we got here yesterday. You won’t believe this place, it is just gorgeous. I’m looking at the Atlantic Ocean right now. You should see the color of the water down here. The boys are playing golf, I’m getting a massage Alfresco later. I think it comes with fettucini.”

Dinner Is Served

There are more dinner options at The Breakers than you can shake a palm frond at, from Asian cuisine to seafood to aged prime American steaks. My wife and I opted for Italian food at the appropriately named The Italian Restaurant. Why no fancy-schmancy name such as Sacco & Vanzetti’s or Funzi’s of Firenze? Because The Italian Restaurant is a family-friendly restaurant where you can bring the kids. If they spill their chocolate milk on your Mozzarella in Carrozza, no harm done.

The Italian Restaurant

(Speaking of kids, The Breakers is very family friendly. They offer camps, playrooms, entertainment centers, baby sitters, junior golf lessons, and much more.)

We had our dinner in the lounge near the bar where we watched Keegan Bradley win the PGA Championship. My Rigatoni Alla Vodka was superb and the chef happily agreed to my request to prepare the dish with “extra” vodka.

But the highlight of the meal was the Fig and Pear Crostata, truly the best dessert I’ve ever had. And if I’m lying, may I be afflicted with the yips AND the shanks for the rest of my golfing life. Adorned with almond ice cream and Amaretto syrup, this was MY Wanamaker Trophy on PGA Championship Sunday.

*************************************

For golfers, The Breakers is a magnificent resort destination. It was wonderful when I visited there in August. And to golf there during the winter when the rest of the country is shivering and freezing, well, it doesn’t get better than that!

Don’t want to bring your sticks? Not a problem, you can rent clubs. Want to improve your game? Visit the on-site John Webster Golf Academy.

The John Webster Golf Academy

I strongly recommend that you explore The Breakers’ superb web site which includes virtual tours of the Rees Jones Course and the Ocean Course, as well as the rest of the grounds and the resort’s amenities.

After “touring” The Breakers for yourself, I think you’ll understand why I’ve bestowed upon it my highest, GolfConversations.com rating of 5 BALATAS:

Eric Schwarz

Golf Conversations: Corey used to have a bushy head of hair; now he’s got that buzz cut. What happened there? Wait, I think I know why.

Eric Schwarz: Because he had too much grey hair?

GC: That’s it!

ES: That’s why the moustache is gone as well.

GC: He had a NICE moustache.

ES: I agree with you, he had a good moustache. Then he started getting so much grey in it so he just kind of backed off.

GC: “Vanity: thy name is Pavin!”

(laughter)

ES: I spoke to him last night. He was babysitting his daughter, Alexis.

GC: Alexis?

ES: That’s his 3-year old.

GC: Not his car, which is a Lex-US.

ES: No, he doesn’t have a Lexus, he has a BMW.

(laughter)

He gave me his old car and he bought a BMW.

GC: What a good guy. That was nice of him.

ES: Yes, it was. I guess that was for 20 years of service or something.

GC: Did it come with a full tank of gas?

ES: Yes it did. He had it shipped to me from Dallas.

GC: Where are you living these days?

ES: I live in Indio, California.

GC: I was just there about three weeks ago.

ES: You went out to PGA West, I’m sure.

GC: I did. I flew to San Diego and then I drove over the mountains.

ES: Over 74?

GC: Yep. Coming down to the valley there, that’s beautiful.

ES: That’s a beautiful sight. They’ve had a lot of people drive off that road.

GC: When I was growing up and watching all those Bob Hope Desert Classics and Skins Games from Palm Springs, all you would hear from the commentators was, “This putt is going to break towards Indio.”  Indio, Indio, Indio. I didn’t know what the hell they were talking about. I thought Indio was a river or a mountain.

(laughter)

ES: I don’t really buy that, Robert. You hear guys who say, “Indio got that.”  I say, “Baloney!”

(laughter)

GC: Bob Rosburg used to say everything broke towards Indio. I played the Palmer Private Course at PGA West and every ball I hit broke towards that irrigation canal.

(laughter)

While I was out there, I interviewed Ken Venturi in Rancho Mirage. We were talking about golf and Sinatra, Dean Martin, Bing Crosby. He said we’ll never see those days again and he’s right. The world of golf and entertainment has changed.

ES: This is my 30^th year or so on the PGA Tour. When I first started caddying, there weren’t that many foreigners. There was a guy named John Lister from New Zealand. The other foreigners were either from Mexico – Victor Regalado – the Canadians, you had Dave Barr and Richard Zokol. Now you’ve got Australians, English, Scottish, German, Czech.

GC: Waitress, give this guy the check!

(laughter)

ES: It’s just different now; the camaraderie is not the same.

GC: Tell me when you started caddying.

ES: I started in ’79.

GC: How does one start being a caddy?

ES: Mistake!

(laughter)

I was going to school at Arizona State. I tried my best to make the golf team. They had a good team, it was tough.

GC: Where’d you grow up?

ES: The Bay Area near San Francisco; Ross, California in Marin County. Then we moved to Laguna Beach in 1970.The golf coach at Laguna Beach High saw my swing during physical education and asked me if I wanted to play on the golf team. I played on the team from ’70 to ’74. I went to junior college, I wasn’t polished yet as they are now. Kids get out of high school today and they’re shooting 64s.

GC: You mean when you were in high school, you didn’t have a swing coach and a sports psychologist?

(laughter)

ES: NO, I did not!

GC: Oh, my goodness.

ES: I was lucky if I could get a lesson back then. I used to ride to the golf course on my bike with my clubs over my shoulder. I got a job at a country club where I could practice every day. I’d pick the range and then hit the balls back.

GC: What club was this?

ES: El Niguel just south of Laguna Beach. Then I went to Saddleback junior college in Mission Viejo.

GC: Did you know what you wanted to do?

ES: I was an architecture major. My golf coach in high school was a drafting/architecture teacher. I really liked drafting/architecture; that was my first love. Then I changed my major to broadcasting.

GC: At Saddleback?

ES: At Saddle Back. I wanted to do sports broadcasting. I did play-by-play of some football and basketball games.

GC: You have a good voice. I liked it before when you said, “Check.”

(laughter)

ES: I was the number one player on the team. I played against Mark Wiebe every week. He went to Palomar Junior College and I went to Saddleback. We were the best two teams in the conference.

GC: Wiebe just won last week.

ES: I know he did. I played against Wiebes every week. I played against O’Meara in high school. Last week O’Meara says to me, “Did you ever get me?”

I said, “I got you once!”

(laughter)

Yeah, I beat him once.

(laughter)

I remember the first time I played Mark O’Meara. It was at Mission Viejo Country Club, which they called “Mission Impossible” back then. It was a very, very tough golf course. He was a plus-one there when he was 16. I shot a decent score, 77. This guy hits five greens and shoots 72. I’d never seen a kid chip and putt like that in my life. He had this Arnold Palmer blade putter and he made everything!

I told him that the other day: “Remember that old Arnold Palmer putter? And that big old head of hair you had?”

GC: How did you go from Saddleback to ASU?

ES: This was 1977. I tried out for the golf team. There was like 130 guys there. George Boutell was the golf coach; he was a tour official for 10 years. I was averaging a little under 75 and couldn’t make the team.

I should have gone to another school where I could have played every week. That’s what makes you tournament tough.

In all the years I’ve caddied, the guys that can handle the pressure situations can parlay it into a victory or something positive. Let’s say you tie and lose in a playoff; you got yourself where you want to go. You didn’t give up the opportunity to win a golf tournament.

GC: Let’s get back to ASU.

ES: During Christmas vacation of 1978, I went back to El Niguel to work in the dining room as a waiter. I was bothering a guy who played on the tour; his name was Alan Tapie. I asked him, “Do you have a caddy for the Phoenix Open?”

He says, “No, why?”

I told him I was going to ASU and I wanted to caddy for him and see what it was like out there.

He said, “Did you ever caddy before?”

I said, “Nope.”

A week later he called me and asked me if I wanted to caddy for him.

GC: Do you remember the course where the tournament was played?

ES: Phoenix Country Club. The easiest golf course on tour to walk. Ever. Alan made the cut; he made like $1100. I remember he gave me $130, a couple of dozen balls, and about ten gloves. Which I thought was fine.

GC: What was it like caddying in your first professional tournament? Were you intimidated?

ES: Yes and no. I didn’t know any of the caddies or the pros. I just tried to learn as I was doing it. Alan let me carry the pin sheet; that was the only thing I had to do. He did the yardages, he didn’t ask me anything. I was a bag toter. But he taught me what to do which was quite nice.

GC: What did he teach you?

ES: Where to stand and what to do. Like, “Why is that guy raking the bunker but it’s not his player who’s in the bunker?”  You know, courtesy things.

GC: What happened after the Phoenix tournament?

ES: I caddied for him in L.A. the week after. I finished up school that year in ’79. And I was also going to Ron Bailey’s School of Broadcasting in San Francisco. They had a tournament then at Silverado called the Anheuser Busch. I called up Alan Tapie and asked him if I could caddy for him. He said, “Sure, come on up.”

On Sunday of the tournament, we’ve got five holes to play; we were like 6 under par. 10 under par was leading the tournament. Allen goes birdie, birdie, par, birdie, birdie.

GC: Oooh, boy.

ES: He goes from 6 to 10 under. On the last hole – Alan Tapie, he could roll his potato. He was one of the best putters I’ve ever seen. A great short game player. Not quite as good as Corey Pavin, but he was damn good.

The last hole at Silverado, he had a 20-footer for a birdie. Alan says to me, “Don’t worry, I’ll make it.” Rolls it right in. John Fought was behind us. He had won the Buick Goodwrench the week before in Flint, Michigan.

So there were four guys tied at 10 under par, three of them are in the clubhouse: Buddy Gardner, Bobby Wadkins, and Alan Tapie. Fought comes to the last hole; he’s got a 10-footer and he rolled it right in and won the tournament. That was my introduction to having a chance to win a golf tournament as a caddy.

GC: How did it feel?

ES: It was great. I saw Alan at Newport Beach this year. The guy is 61, looks like he’s about 43.

GC: What happened next?

ES: I got my broadcasting degree. I went up to northwest Washington and was trying to get on at a radio station up there. Aberdeen, Washington. They get about 80 inches of rain a year.

GC: I hope you weren’t wearing the rain gear from last year’s Ryder Cup.

(laughter)

ES: That wasn’t Lisa’s fault, it wasn’t Corey’s fault. It wasn’t anybody’s fault. When it rains that hard, I don’t care WHAT kind of rain gear you’re wearing, you’re gonna get wet! And it rained sideways. And this stuff got wet. It wasn’t awful. Corey wore his all week. I got rained on; it wasn’t that bad.

GC: I know they made a big stink about the rain gear at the Ryder Cup. All I can say about that company though, years ago I purchased one of their golf bags, a carry bag.

ES: Sun Mountain?

GC: Yes. The first time I carried the bag 18 holes, it was a hot, humid day. It was a red bag and I was wearing a yellow shirt. When I got home, I noticed that the red dye from the bag bled all over the back of my shirt. I called them and they told me that that shouldn’t have happened and that my perspiration must have a very high pH.

(laughter)

Needless to say, that was the last time I bought any of that company’s products.

ES: Did they do anything for you?

GC: Nothing. But that’s not important.

ES: I find that interesting. I can’t wait to tell Lisa that, Corey’s wife.

GC: This was about 15 years ago. Maybe they’ve changed the quality of their bags. Or maybe my perspiration’s pH has changed.

(laughter)

ES: I’ve got plenty of Sun Mountain stuff at home. Never had any problem with it. Like I said before, when it rains that hard, some of it’s gonna get in. You can’t keep that dry, you just can’t.

GC: Ok, let’s get back to Washington.

ES: I was there two months and I played golf three times. The only three days you could play. I remember I shot 68 the last round I played there.

GC: What happened with the radio career?

ES: It never materialized. So I called Alan and asked him if I could caddy for him on the tour. He said, “Yeah, sure.”

GC: Nice guy!

ES: I drove from Washington to Palm Springs for the Bob Hope.

GC: This was 1980?

ES: 1980. I’ve been doing it ever since. A lot of caddying is common sense. It’s not that difficult. Some guys I’ve seen make it quite difficult. The number one thing a professional golfer wants is for you to show up on time. Your pro doesn’t want to carry that bag. After they do it one time … all you pros out there who listen to this: you caddy one time, you carry one of them big bags 18 holes and you’ll have a lot more respect for us, I guarantee you that. It’s not the easiest thing in the world.

GC: I carry my own bag which doesn’t have all the crap in it that the pros’ bags have. It’s a hard job, especially going up and down those hills in the heat, humidity, and the rain.

ES: Now that Corey’s on the Champions Tour, I don’t walk as much. But we’ll be at Westchester this year in the middle of August for the Senior Players Championship. And that’s a hilly S.O.B. there.

GC: I saw my first professional golf tournament at Westchester Country Club.  That is a very hilly course. That should be a good course for Corey. Work it this way, work it that way. Bing, bang, boom.

(laughter)

ES: I’ve caddied for him there many times. I remember one year he shot 77 the first round. He shot 64 the next round to make the cut.

GC: So what happened at the Bob Hope?

ES: I worked the Bob Hope, the Phoenix the next week. I drove from L.A. to Doral. I couldn’t afford to fly home so I would caddy every week. If my guy wasn’t playing, I’d caddy for a guy at the Monday qualifier. Do that every week. On Sunday night, three or four of us would jump in a car and drive to the next tournament. Get to course at 4 am, sleep in the car for a few hours, and then work for a guy in the Monday qualifier. It was a gypsy life but it was fun, though. I was young, dumb, and full of you-know-what.

(laughter)

I had a good time gallivanting around the country. But it got to a point where I said, “I think I’ve done this long enough.” I was 32, I was caddying for Mike Sullivan at Houston in 1989. Now mind you, I’d never won a golf tournament as a caddy. I never made enough money to pay taxes. If I had 500 bucks at the end of the season, that was ok.

GC: Who else did you caddy for besides Alan Tapie?

ES: I caddied for 22 different guys in ’82. I caddied for some guys you’ve never heard of: Payne Stewart, Fred Couples, and Mark O’Meara. They were all rookies in ’81.

I caddied for Frank Connor, the tennis player, in ’83 and ’84. Ronnie Black in ’84 to ’86. Vance Hoeffner. Mike Sullivan in ’88 to ’90. In ’89 Mike won the Independent Insurance Agent tournament in Houston shooting 65 the last round to beat Craig Stadler by a shot.

We were the last group teeing off the 10^th tee on Saturday. We were 13 shots behind with 2 rounds to go and we win the golf tournament.

GC: Wow.

ES: So now I’ve got a win. I’ll put it this way, Robert: I haven’t been broke ever since I got that check for that win. I’ve never run out of money since then.

(laughter)

GC: Good for you. Waitress: give this man the check!

(laughter)

ES: I caddied for Mike one more year. I was caddying for a kid named Peter Persons in 1991. He wasn’t going to play Hartford and Corey Pavin’s caddy asked me what I was doing the week of Hartford. I told him I was going to see my girlfriend in Burlington, Ontario.

I asked him, “Why?”

He said, “I’ve got something for you” and he taps his bag.

Corey Pavin at the time was the leading money winner on the tour. So I said, “Yeah, heck, yeah, I’ll caddy for Corey.” This was 1991 at Hartford, which will be our 20^th anniversary next week.

GC: Congratulations. Are you two registered at Nordstrom’s?

(laughter)

Corey Pavin & Eric Schwarz

ES: He was still using wooden clubs, I remember that. Cleveland Classics. I tell you what, Robert: I never saw a guy that could chip and putt like this man. He led the tour in putting in ’91. He made everything. Up and down from the most god-awful places. Unbelievable.

So we were in the hunt during the Hartford tournament. On Sunday on 17 – it’s that semi-island green.

GC: This was River Highlands?

ES: Yes. Mr. Pavin did not drive it well that week. But he was making 20-footers for par. So we get to 17; he hits it WAY up on the hill on the left. He says to me, “What do you think?”

I said, “Pin’s in the front left. You gotta hit a 5-iron to make sure you get over the water.” He three putts. And then he made a 30-footer on the last hole to get into a playoff. The outcome was the same as it was last year: a 3-man playoff, lose on the first hole. In 1991, Billy Ray Brown and Rick Fehr as opposed to last year with Bubba Watson and Scott Verplank.

After that round, he told me to come into the locker room. I told him, “I can’t go in the locker room.”

He goes, “Tournament’s over, just come in – I want to talk to you.”

So I’m trying to think, “Man, what did I do wrong?”

So he sat me down and said, “How’d you like to work for me?”

Now this was an opportunity.

GC: You thought it was just a temporary gig.

ES: I knew that his caddy, Jim Menzies, was having problems with his green card. He was Australian. That’s why I was working for him that week. So Jim decided to pack it in. He had caddied for Corey for 6 years. And Corey had pretty good success from ’85 to ’91. I heard Jim went back to Australia with like $300,000.

GC: That’s a lot of money.

ES: A guy that can chip and putt like Corey, I’ll work for him anytime! Anywhere!

He says, “What are you going to do about the guy you’re working for?”

GC: Peter Persons?

ES: Right. I caddied for him the rest of the year and left him at the end of the year.

Peter asked me what I was going to do. I told him, “I’m going to work for Corey Pavin.”

He said, “Ahhh, I knew it!”

GC: So Corey didn’t ask you to start working the next week?

ES: No, Jim came back and finished off the year. Later on that year, Corey called me and asked me if I wanted to go to Japan for the Dunlop.

I said, “I’ve love to go, Corey, but I really can’t afford to fly to Japan. Let me see how much it costs and I’ll get back to you.” So I checked it out; it was like 1400 bucks which was a lot of money.

GC: It still is. But it never entered into the conversation, “Oh, I’ll pay for your plane ticket”?

ES: He said to me, “Eric, take the flight. I guarantee you you will not lose any money.”

GC: Okay, that’s what we want to hear!

ES: I went there and didn’t spend any money; he wrote me a check for like 3500 bucks. So that was great. Then in ’92 through ’96, he played well all those five years and I did real well.

GC: Hey, didn’t he win a little tournament called the US Open during that time?

ES: The US Open in ’95.

GC: At Shinnecock.

ES: At Shinnecock, yeah. That was a lot of fun!

(laughter)

GC: So did you pull that 4-wood on the last hole?

ES: The conversation went like this, Robert:

COREY: How far have got?
ME: 209 and 19: 228
COREY: Can I get a 2-iron there?
ME: There’s no way it’s a 2-iron. It’s a 4-wood all the way.

And after about a 20-second conversation, he agreed with me.

[Our attention is suddenly diverted to the large-screen TV that’s displaying coverage of the US Open being contested at Congressional Country Club. Phil Mickelson is deliberating about his next shot.]

GC: Look at this: Mickelson is going to hit a driver off the deck.

ES: He hits some of the weirdest shots. He’s a gambler.

GC: Ah, Bones talked him out of the driver.

ES: He didn’t talk him out of that 6-iron at the Masters. Bones told me that he tried to talk him out of it last year.

GC: Off the pine needles?

ES: Yeah. He said, “I tried to talk him out of it but he was adamant.” It was one of the greatest shots ever.

GC: It really was.

ES: That’s the way Phil is. He’s a do-or-die kind of guy. There’s nothing wrong with that.

GC: Let’s get back to that 4-wood at the US Open.

ES: It was right to left, probably 20 miles an hour. It was helping a little bit. I said to Corey, “Just aim it at the right edge of the green and let the wind take it. And just stay with it.”

GC: He keeps his head down longer than anyone I’ve ever seen in my life.

ES: It was great concentration on his part; a great clutch shot. I thought the whole day on Sunday shooting 68 was very clutch. He was on a mission to win that golf tournament, to get that moniker off his back: “The best player never to win a major.” It wasn’t bothering him but it kind of bugged him.

He was on a mission. I saw it on Sunday … the look in his eye and his demeanor. The same thing in Milwaukee in 2006 when he hadn’t won in 10 years. On Sunday, he didn’t miss a fairway, didn’t miss a green. He was zoned in. That man wanted to win that golf tournament. Jerry Kelly never got within 2 strokes of him on Sunday. You hit all 18 greens, that’s some golf.

GC: At the US Open after he hit that 4-wood, he knelt down and was deep in thought, as you recall?

ES: Oh, yes, I remember. ‘Cause I missed my best opportunity to tell him a line he’d already heard in the past. Back in ‘80s in Dallas, I was caddying for Ronnie Black at the TPC Colinas. Billy Pierot had missed the fairway three days in a row and he finally hits one down the fairway on 18. Billy’s caddy says to him, “Good shot. For YOU!”

(laughter)

Ronnie Black looks at me and says, “Did that guy really say that?”

I said, “Yeah, he did.”

“Well, don’t you ever say that to me!”

I said, “I think I’m a little smarter than that, Ronnie.”

(laughter)

So Corey knew this story. And after the US Open, he told me, “You should have said, ‘Good shot. For YOU!’” after he hit the 4-wood.

Corey said, “I would have started laughing.”

(laughter)

He was in deep concentration. I don’t know if he was praying, I don’t know what he was doing. All I know is that he hit the shot of his life right there.

GC: That was a fabulous shot.

ES: And then, of course, he missed the putt. That was the shortest putt he missed the whole week. It was right edge, uphill, easy for a right-hander. It couldn’t have been any easier.

GC: How did you celebrate after the victory?

ES: I went with Corey, his ex-wife, his ex-sister-in-law, her husband … and Lee Janzen and his wife. Lee told him the week before, “The guy that loses in a playoff the week before wins the US Open.” Lee had beat us in a playoff at the Kemper Open the week before.

I probably drank a bottle of champagne before we got to the rooftop of the clubhouse at Shinnecock. That’s the worst headache I’ve had my whole life.

(laughter)

I relished every minute of that evening. But the next morning my head was like a bongo drum. The next day I went back to Shinnecock and bought all the memorabilia I could buy. That was certainly the highlight of my caddying career.

GC: You said that when Corey was kneeling, you didn’t know if he was praying … speaking of that, when did he become a born-again Christian?

ES: 1990.

GC: Prior to that, he was Jewish.

ES: Yes.

GC: And I’m Jewish. To each his own but I was disappointed that Corey left the tribe. I really identified with him. He was the only Jewish golfer who was competing in a very un-Jewish sport. We’re about the same size, we both have/had great moustaches. Both of us have great short games.

(laughter)

ES: I wasn’t caddying for Corey in 1990 when he switched. It upset his parents quite a bit. His dad Jack was a great guy. Bless his heart, he died in 1997. Jack and Barbara weren’t real happy with Corey doing that but they dealt with it.

GC: Hey, if the guy’s happy, that’s all that counts.

ES: It made him a better person, I can tell you that. He’s the one who told me that. He was a little pistol when I first started working for him. He was very demanding.

GC: How would he be demanding?

ES: Let’s put it this way: the man never blamed me for anything. A lot of players blame their caddies for this and that. Corey Pavin to this day has never blamed me for anything.

He said, “I use you because I know you’re knowledgeable. I know you know what you’re doing. But I have the final word.”

GC: It never made sense to me – unless the caddy gives the player the wrong yardage – how can you blame the caddy?

ES: You know how many times I’ve given Corey the wrong yardage? Once. We were playing in the Johnny Walker in Jamaica. From 13^th to 20^th place, it was all $50,000. The first year we went there, we’re making 50 grand. I didn’t care what we shot on Sunday! You could shoot 96 and still make 50 grand.

GC: Let the pina coladas flow, mon!

ES: I did the yardages myself; I walked it with one of those wheels. I made my own book. On the first hole, Corey asks me how far we’ve got. I give him the yardage. He hits a 5-iron that comes up short of the bunker and short of the green.

He says to me, “Is that the right yardage?”

I said, “Nope.”

We start walking towards the green and he says, “Alright, Eric, what’s up with the bad yardage? What’s going on?”

I said, “Boss, I’ll tell you the truth. I was thinking about pussy.”

(laughter)

Corey says, “Alright, you gave me an honest answer. Let’s go.” That was the only bad yardage I ever gave him.

(laughter)

GC: That’s funny. I know he’s not Jewish anymore …

ES: He’s Jewish, he’s of Jewish descent.

GC: Yes, he’s what we call culturally Jewish.

(laughter)

ES: He’s a born-again Christian but he’s still Jewish.

GC: So when he misses a 2-footer, does he ever say, “Oy vey, only a schmendrick like me could miss a meshuganah putt like that.”

(laughter)

Or “How did I get such a putz for a caddy?”

(laughter)

When you’re in L.A., does he send you to Nate and Al’s for a pastrami on rye?

(laughter)

ES: No.

GC: Well if he ever does, make sure you tell them you want it “lean.”

(laughter)

Whenever they talk about Corey, they say he’s a “shotmaker.”

ES: That’s correct.

GC: He’s one of the last guys who works the ball.

ES: Bubba Watson also does a good job.

GC: Yes, he does. But they also say it’s harder to work the ball these days because…

ES: The ball doesn’t work like it used to. Corey was unbelievable with a balata ball. He could bend that thing … like Beckham. He still moves it pretty well but he can’t bend them anywhere like he used to.

GC: But he seems to be working the ball on every shot.

ES: Yeah, but he’s not bad at hitting it straight either. He’ll say to me, “Can I cut this one in there?”

And I’ll say, “No, just hit the straight shot.” But it depends upon the hole location, too. Here’s a guy if the pin’s on the right and he’s got a bunker right, you’ll never see him draw one in there.

GC: Byron Nelson, I believe, said the hardest shot in golf is to hit a straight ball. These days, is it hard to hit a straight ball?

ES: Yes, it is.

GC: I never understood why it’s so hard to hit the ball straight, especially given today’s equipment. These guys have been hitting thousands of golf balls for 10, 20, 30 years. You’d think they’d be able to hit a straight ball after all that time and practice.

ES: I think it’s easier as a mindset to work a ball. Corey hates a straight shot. He wants to see something with some shape to it. The straight holes baffle him.

GC: What are some of his favorite courses? Besides Riviera.

ES: Riviera’s not our favorite course anymore because they made it 400 yards longer. We played there this year in the L.A. Open, made the cut. They’ve made so many courses obsolete for him. People ask me if he’s playing the US Open this week. I say, “He’s not going to go out there and play at 7600 yards. He’s got no prayer.” Who wants to go there and beat yourself in the head with a couple of 77s?

But his favorite golf course is definitely Colonial. And Pebble Beach, Shinnecock, Cypress Point.

GC: With all of the pro-ams that you’ve done, what are some of the more interesting experiences you’ve had with amateurs?

ES: Leslie Nielsen was great at the Bob Hope. He had this little gizmo he’d keep hidden in his hand that could make a fart sound. We were at Bermuda Dunes Country Club and all these ladies wanted to have their picture taken with Leslie Nielsen. So they’re posing for pictures and he lets that gizmo go and he turns to the women and goes, “Ladies!!!”

(laughter)

GC: Did Corey ever play with any Presidents at the Hope?

ES: No. But when Clinton, Bush, and Ford played that one time with Scott Hoch, the Presidents wanted to meet Corey. Secret Service came and got him. I said to Corey, “Take this sleeve of Titleists and have them sign them.” And they did. I still have those golf balls at home.

Corey’s played with Clinton a few times. The week before at the Kemper before the US Open, Corey said to me, “I’ll meet you in the parking lot; bring the bag.”

I said, “Where are you going? To play with the President?”  He says, “Yeah.”

(laughter)

The next week after Corey wins the US Open, Clinton calls him and says, “See, that lesson I gave you really helped.”

GC: Corey won the US Open with those funky Cleveland VAS irons, right?

ES: “Vibration Absorption System.”

GC: They were purple.

ES: In ’94, he was the only player using them. ’95 and ‘96, him and David Edwards were the only players using them.

His first three tournaments with the VASs in ’94, he was fourth, second, first. They looked goofy but they were easy to hit. They weren’t bad clubs at all.

GC: So Corey is still looking for that first win on the Champions Tour. He must be happy to get away from those 7000-yard courses.

ES: He’s quite content on the Champions Tour. Colonial is probably the only stop he’ll play on the regular tour.

GC: How does Corey like playing in the Senior British Open?

ES: He loves playing there. He finished second last year.

GC: How do you like it over there?

ES: I love it. I don’t love it to live there but I love going there for a week or two. I enjoy it there. I love drinking beer.

(laughter)

And I like the people. They’re very golf knowledgeable.

GC: Have you noticed any changes in terms of the fans who attend golf tournaments now compared to 15, 20 years ago?

ES: It depends. The fans in Phoenix – you get 120,000 fans there – three-quarters of them aren’t out there for golf. It’s a social event.

GC: I can’t stand this “Get in the hole!” nonsense.

ES: That’s disgusting.

GC: It’s gotten out of hand.

ES: Not to berate the fans on Long Island …

GC: Go ahead!

(laughter)

ES: Those fans at Bethpage, they get a little ornery. They’re New Yorkers. I’m not saying anything bad about New Yorkers but they tell it like it is. If they’re thinking it, they’re gonna let you know it.

GC: I don’t care for that.

ES: The fans at Augusta are very respectful.

GC: Well, that’s different.

ES: You have to be; otherwise you’ll lose your ticket.

GC: That’s right. And I wish they would do that at PGA Tour events. Throw out the nitwits.

ES: I talk to folks where I live in the desert and they can relate to the John Cooks and the Mark O’Mearas. They should make the Bob Hope into a Champions Tour event.

They don’t have celebrities any more like they used to. When I started caddying we had Glen Campbell, Jackie Gleason, Dean Martin.

GC: Sammy Davis. Mr. Moon River, Andy Williams.

ES: And these guys would bring in their buddies for the pro-am and you’d have a zillion people out there.

GC: Now you’ve got, what, Justin Timberlake?

ES: I wouldn’t know him if he was sitting right there.

GC: Any last thoughts?

ES: I’ve enjoyed every minute of caddying. I’d do it all over again. I love golf and I love being out there. I love the caddying part but I can’t stand the travel part anymore ‘cause it’s such a pain in the butt.

GC: How are you traveling these days?

ES: We’re going to Connecticut, then Montreal the week after.

GC: You’re going to drive?

ES: Oh, no, no, no.

GC: Those days are over?

ES: Corey and I are going to play in an outing in Greenville, Tennessee. Scott Niswonger invited Corey to play last year and he was invited back this year. Mr. Wiswonger sent his plane up – a G-4 – to get us. Me being 6’5”, this was the first private jet I was almost able to stand up in.

So we’re going again this year. He’s going to pick us up in Hartford Sunday night, fly us down to Greenville, and then fly us to Montreal in his private jet. So I don’t have to drive anywhere!

(laughter)

GC: Eric, when you fly down from Hartford, make a stop in Charlotte and pick me up …

(laughter)

… and I’ll go with you guys to Greenville.

(laughter)

GC: You got any racy stories?

ES: I have some great stories but I can’t tell you – they’re off the record.

GC: If they’re off the record, don’t tell me.

ES: A lot of people say to me, “Eric, with all these stories you’ve got, why don’t you write a book?”

I said, “If I write a book, I’ll have so many people not like me for telling the truth.”  You know what I mean? I don’t need enemies.

GC: I suspect a lot of the stories are of a sexual nature. And I’d guess that Tiger’s not the only guy out there doing his thing.

ES: That would be a fact, Jack.

GC: But you know what? A person’s private life is none of anyone’s business. So Eric: are there caddy groupies on the PGA Tour?

(laughter)

Thanks for your time. Good luck to you and Mr. Pavin on the Champions Tour. And when you see Corey, tell him he’s invited to my house next year for Passover Seder. I make a matzo ball he can work left-to-right, right-to-left, whatever he wants!

(laughter)

ES: Thanks, Robert!

Robert Blumenthal & Eric Schwarz

Kristin is an aspiring tour player who will be working on her game this fall and winter in California with Billy Harmon and Dave Stockton, Jr. Her goal is to enter the LPGA’s Q School next year. Kristin’s story is a compelling one, as she has battled cancer and economic hardships in pursuit of her dream. Go get ‘em, Kristin!

Kristin Janinis

Golf Conversations: How did you get involved with golf?

Kristin Janinis: Junior golf in Chico, California.

GC: Did anyone in your family play golf?

KJ: Nobody was involved with golf. There was one summer when I played pretty much every single sport. My mom being a teacher, wanted me out of the house in the summer. She had told me that there were college scholarships for women’s golf. She told me about a junior golf clinic; I ended up going, and the rest is history.

GC: Little did you know that years later you would reach the pinnacle of the sport by being my caddy for four days.

(laughter)

So the junior golf clinic was the first time you’d ever swung a golf club?

KJ: Ever. In my life.

GC: How old were you?

KJ: I was seventeen.

GC: Can you recall how it felt the first time?

KJ: Great! I loved it!

GC: Immediately? You hit the ball well the first time?

KJ: Immediately.

GC: Annnhhh, I oughta smack you one!

(laughter)

You know, it takes some people twenty years to get to where you got on the first swing.

(laughter)

KJ: I guess I was lucky!

GC: Who taught you how to hold the club?

KJ: Tom Fegley from Chico. We’re still in touch.

GC: You hit the ball perfectly on your first shot?

KJ: I wouldn’t say perfectly but it was natural. I loved it!

GC: Wasn’t a worm burner?

KJ: Nope.

GC: I hate you!

(laughter)

It’s not fair.

(laughter)

Kristin Janinis at Old Macdonald

So you were seventeen when you started. Some of these girls start playing when they’re six years old.

KJ: Yeah. When I went to the junior clinic, a lot of parents were there. I have the best family ever – not to brag. They’re great and supportive but they didn’t know anything about golf…

GC: The best family ever? Better than The Brady Bunch?

(laughter)

KJ: Better!

GC: You were telling me yesterday that you’ve got athleticism in your family.

KJ: I’ve got a brother who played in Sweden for soccer and Ultimate Frisbee.

GC: Ultimate Frisbee?

KJ: Yeah. He was on the national team.

GC: Is that where the dogs are jumping in the air and catching the Frisbee in their mouths?

(laughter)

And what about your dad?

KJ: He subbed for the Olympic ski team for downhill.

GC: And Mom? Does she have athletic genes?

KJ: My mom did tennis. She was the brain. She went to Santa Barbara and graduated in three years. My uncles went to the Olympics in track and field. My uncle was an All-American at Cal. He stole the Axe at Stanford…

GC: He stole the Axe?

KJ: He went to jail for a night.

GC: I’m sure that made a positive impression on you.

(laughter)

KJ: It did! That’s my favorite story!

GC: Ok, so you’ve got the good genes … which is important. While in junior golf, did you get good enough to have colleges show interest in you?

KJ: I got pretty decent at seventeen. I started going to tournaments in high school. I was shooting in the mid-80s. I went to junior college and decided to give up the other sports and pursue golf. Within two and a half years, I started to break 70. And my first course record was in a tournament.

GC: Where was the course?

KJ: Bidwell in Chico. And I have the course record at Butte Creek Country Club in Chico.

GC: What are the records?

KJ: 67 and 68.

GC: You know, I thought I hated you before…

(laughter)

… now I really hate you! 67, 68. Oh, but you were playing up at the ladies’ tees, right? Come on back to the tips where I play from and it’s a different game, sister!

(laughter)

67, 68. That’s pretty damn impressive. That’s fabulous!

Kristin Janinis & Granny Smith

KJ: Thank you.

GC: Ok, so you’re going through California like Babe Didrikson … shattering course records…

KJ: I love Babe Didrikson. The Babe.

GC: You should read my interview with Peggy Kirk Bell. She was good friends with The Babe. What was the name of the college you went to?

KJ: Butte College. Where Aaron Rodgers came from.

GC: The Green Bay Packers quarterback?

KJ: Yes. We went to high school together. And he’s a golfer as well.

GC: Have you guys met?

KJ: We’ve golfed together. He’s a year ahead. He’s dating one of my girlfriends in Chico.

GC: Let’s get back to junior college.

KJ: I got sick. I had to pull out. I got cancer.

GC: Do you want to talk about that?

KJ: Not really.

GC: But you’re ok now?

KJ: I’m great, yeah.

GC: Good.

KJ: I was driving to Oregon to a girlfriend’s wedding when I was twenty-four. I drove through Bandon and fell in love with it.

GC: This was about three years ago?

KJ: Uh huh. It was my birthday, July 17^th, and I ended up getting hired here.

GC: I don’t know what I’m going to get you next year for your birthday.

(laughter)

And for you readers out there, I think she would really prefer cash.

(laughter)

KJ: I fell in love with the area and wanted to get back on track with golf.

GC: When you were sick, how long were you away from golf?

KJ: I was two years-plus doing nothing at all. So I ended up picking up balls at the range here. I started talking to some of the caddies here and they told me to go to Arizona or Palm Springs.

GC: To be a caddy?

KJ: No. To follow the sun … to go where the golf was during the winter.

GC: Did you have professional aspirations at that time?

KJ: Yeah. I decided that I was going to do it.

GC: You made this decision when you were picking balls off the range and taking Milky Way bars from the snack shack?

(laughter)

KJ: Right!

GC: You decided you wanted to be a tour professional?

KJ: Right. I decided I was going to go for it.

GC: So people around here told you to go to Palm Springs or Arizona?

KJ: Right. They said older people are in Palm Springs and I love old people…

GC: You love old people???

(laughter)

No wonder we get along so well!

(laughter)

KJ: So I went to Palm Springs. I didn’t know anybody. I lived in my car.

GC: What year was this?

KJ: Let’s see … I was twenty-four. So it was two summers ago. I didn’t tell my parents because it would kill them. I told them I was staying with a friend. I would park at golf courses or church parking lots.

GC: What kind of car were you sleeping in?

KJ: My 1989 Volvo.

GC: Can I ask you a personal question?

KJ: Yes.

GC: What kind of mileage were you getting with the Volvo?

(laughter)

Did you ever get hassled by the cops?

KJ: I did. The cops shined a flashlight in the back of my car and I hid. It’s scary sometimes on your own…

GC: Of course it is.

KJ: …not knowing anybody in a strange city. So I put a blanket over my head and the cops said, “Oh, we’ll come back for this later.” So then I drove away and parked in a Wal-Mart parking lot.

GC: “Attention shoppers: we have a Kristen Janinis sleeping in her car in the parking lot.”

(laughter)

What were you doing in Palm Springs for money?

KJ: I had saved up a little bit while I was working here. My parents would send me money here and there. They’re not wealthy by any means but they were doing what they could. I decided to get a job at a golf course where I could get free golf. I went to a Par 3, Palm Royale in La Quinta.

There was a pro there who hired me, an awesome nice guy named Grant. I worked in the pro shop and got decent with my short game. He would tell me to lock up the shop and go out and play with him.

Grant found out that I was living in my car and he handed me a storage room key and said, “I’ll let you stay here but don’t tell anyone.”

GC: How long were you working and sleeping at this course?

KJ: About three months. And I lived in my car for a little longer than three months. After that, I went back to Bandon and got a caddy position. Ken Brooke hired me; he’s awesome. I saved a lot of money.

GC: Where’d you shower when you were sleeping in your car in Palm Springs?

KJ: I would go to sports clubs.

GC: Sneak into gyms?

KJ: Hmm-humm. I would also get invited to these really nice golf courses and I would bring extra clothes and shower there.

GC: Well, you’re in good company. Ben Hogan and Gary Player slept in bunkers. Tom Lehman showered outside in a rain storm.

KJ: I think it makes it much better because you don’t quit.

GC: Because you’ve struggled?

KJ: Yeah. There were so many other humps and bumps that you go through that make you want it that much more. You keep going and grinding. That’s the part I’d never take back. People say, “Oh, you lived in your car – it must have been rough.” But it was a really good experience.

GC: Did you have enough food to eat?

KJ: No. I was eating mostly peanuts from the pro shops. I remember a really good meal I ate with a family that invited me over for Thanksgiving. I kept going, “Wow, this is so awesome!”

GC: When did you come back here and start saving money?

KJ: That was last summer.

GC: And what has transpired between last summer and this summer?

KJ: I went back down to the desert for the winter and got a place. I worked three jobs down there. I tried to balance my golf with work. I was working as a beverage cart girl at Desert Willow and I met a woman through the Madison Club. She loved my game and she decided to sponsor me.

GC: You got to know her and she found out you had professional aspirations?

KJ: Yes. I played golf with her and that was it.

GC: Had she ever sponsored anyone before?

KJ: No.

GC: You think she’d be interested in sponsoring me?

(laughter)

How did she learn about the details of sponsoring a golfer?

KJ: She researched it and she knows a lot of people in the golf industry who are pretty high up.

GC: Before she decided to sponsor you, did she have you audition for her, so to speak, to see how well you played?

KJ: I did. I played with Dave Stockton, Jr. and Billy Harmon.

GC: I guess they liked what they saw.

KJ: They did. And they’re now on board to be my coaches so I’m excited.

GC: Did you play with them in Palm Springs?

KJ: I played with Dave Stockton, Jr. at the Madison and I played with Billy Harmon in Denver.

GC: The Madison is in La Quinta?

KJ: Yes.

GC: It’s a very private, exclusive club?

KJ: Yes.

GC: It’s the kind of club I’d never get invited to. Is that what you’re saying?

(laughter)

Say no more. I get the picture. When did you start with your lessons with Billy and Dave?

KJ: This is all very new. This happened within three months: my sponsorship, meeting the coaches, getting the right equipment. I wasn’t able to afford really nice equipment.

GC: What kind of equipment had you been playing?

KJ: I was playing Titleist 822s.

GC: 822s?  Didn’t those come out right after the 821s?

KJ: I don’t know.

GC: I don’t know either; I’m making this up.

(laughter)

822s. What the hell do I know?

(laughter)

So you weren’t tuned in with launch angle testing and the rest of that techno-stuff?

KJ: No, none of that. Just basic clubs.

GC: Do you have new clubs now?

KJ: Yes.

GC: What are you playing?

KJ: TaylorMade. And I’m excited to have coaches.

GC: When you see Billy Harmon, you go out to Denver?

KJ: No, I’ll see him when I go back to the desert in November.

GC: And Stockton, where’s he?

KJ: He’s in Carlsbad but he’ll be back in La Quinta when I’m there.

GC: And the ultimate goal for you is Q School?

KJ: Yes.

GC: When is that?

KJ: We’re gonna be ready in eight months.

GC: Has there been any discussion with your sponsor about bringing me on board as your sports psychologist?

(laughter)

KJ: We can talk about it.

GC: You’ve seen me in action over the last four days, right?

KJ: I have seen you in action.

(laughter)

GC: And you’ve seen how relaxed you’ve become just by being in my presence.

(laughter)

That’s something to think about, Kristin.

(laughter)

Kristin, we’ve played all four courses here at Bandon. How would you evaluate my style of play?

KJ: Fun.

(laughter)

GC: “Fun,” huh? I’m afraid to hear any more. So what’s your plan for the next few months?

Robert Blumenthal & Kristin Janinis

KJ: I’m going to be here until the end of October. I’ll go down to see my family. And I’ll be in Southern California in November. I’ve got a lot of work to do and I’m looking forward to it.

GC: How often will you be working with Billy?

KJ: We’re going to decide on that. I’m sure I’ll see him once a week at least. I’ll see Dave, for sure, once a month. Maybe twice a month. And I’ll be at the golf course every day.

GC: Do you know where you’ll be practicing?

KJ: I believe I’ll be at Toscana Country Club where Billy is. And at the Palms, I think.

GC: Because after this interview is published, I’m sure your new fans will want to come out and see you.

(laughter)

KJ: I’d love them to come out!

GC: Really?

KJ: Yeah!

GC: What’s your policy on autographs?

(laughter)

KJ: I’ll sign as many as I can!

(laughter)

That’s one of my goals: to get to the pro tour and make a difference. Like you said the other day, an athlete is an entertainer. So I want to get out there and change the LPGA in a good way.

GC: They could use you.

KJ: Thank you. I appreciate that. Hopefully, girls/women who never thought they’d play golf might consider it. That’s what I hope.

GC: But getting back to me though …

(laughter)

… aside from the fact that I’m “fun,” do you see the Champions Tour in my future or has that ship sailed?

(laughter)

Alright, don’t answer that.

(laughter)

KJ: I’m really excited that I got to meet you.

Kristin Janinis & Robert Blumenthal

GC: It was my pleasure, Kristin. Having you as my caddy has been the highlight of my stay here at Bandon Dunes. When you spend four or five hours a day playing golf with someone you want to feel comfortable with them … and the fact that you got all my jokes…

(laughter)

KJ: My cheeks were hurting from smiling so much.

GC: Anything else you’d like to say?

KJ: I’d just like to say come out and watch.

GC: Ok. I’ll tell folks about your Facebook page and they can “like” you and follow your progress. Kristin, I wish you all the best in getting to the LPGA. I’m pulling for you.

KJ: Thank you.

Jane Spicer

Golf Conversations: How did Daphne’s begin?

Jane Spicer: It was a mom/daughter fundraiser. I wanted a sailboat. My mom said if I wanted one, I had to think of a business and make my own money. So we started selling toys and those morphed into puppets and I eventually got the sailboat.

GC: How old were you when you wanted a sailboat?

JS: Ten.

GC: Ten??? A real sailboat?

JS: Yeah, a little 16-foot sloop.

GC: And you were ten? When I was ten all I wanted was bubble gum.

(laughter)

JS: A few years later, a customer suggested that we make golf club headcovers. I was almost 16 then. My mom said, “If you sell enough of these, I’ll buy you a car.”

We went to Goodwill and got a patent leather hat box; we thought that would make a good sample case. And we made enough headcovers to fit in that sample case. We made a birdie, an eagle, and a bogie.

GC: Who’s Daphne?

JS: My mom.

GC: Is mom still with us?

JS: No.

GC: Oh, I’m sorry.

JS: Thank you.

GC: Did she get to see the success of the company?

JS: She did. My dad got involved with it, too. He came on as an accountant when he found out that we kept all our money in coffee cans.

(laughter)

GC: Let’s get back to how you started selling headcovers.

JS: I went to the Arizona Biltmore Resort.

GC: The Frank Lloyd Wright place?

JS: Exactly. I walked into the golf shop with my sample bag and there were photos of the staff on the wall. And the top photo said “Pete Robbeloth.”  So I said, “Hi, I’m Jane, I’m here to see Pete.”  And they let me in.

There weren’t any sales reps back then who were sixteen. Pete was really nice; he didn’t kick me out and I gave him my sales pitch.

He said three things to me: “I’ll buy your headcovers …your sales pitch stinks … and I’ll help you. I’m going to send you to a couple of people and if you can sell to them, you can sell to anybody.”

He told me to go home and practice my sales pitch for a week. I went to the first guy; he chewed me up and spat me out. The second guy traded me my headcover samples and cash for some tennis shoes that I wanted.

GC: Bad trade, Jane.

(laughter)

You were making these headcovers by hand?

JS: Oh, yes. We did them in our dining room. Again, we had a birdie, an eagle, and a bogey. We thought that a bogey is a bad thing so we made a little bogey monster headcover. I think we also had a koala and a beaver. That was our line.

One of the guys I talked to said he’d give me an order if we could make a camel. I said, “Of course we can.” I didn’t think twice about whether we could or not.

GC: The question begs: did he want camels with one hump or two?

JS: They were humpless.

(laughter)

GC: Had there been animal headcovers in the golf market?

JS: No, there hadn’t been. I had to overcome a lot. All I had was the will to succeed. And I wanted that car. My mom and I were so close; when I’d come back with orders, she was so pleased and delighted.

GC: How would you get into places that didn’t want to talk to you?

JS: Having a big smile and remembering people’s names at the gate.

GC: This would be at a private club that had a guard and an entrance gate?

JS: Yes.

GC: You wouldn’t call up the club and try to make an appointment with the head pro?

JS: Oh, I wasn’t that sophisticated. I’d just go out to golf courses, assuming that I’d be able to sell to all of them.

GC: This was all cold-call selling.

JS: Absolutely. I never had a plan. I was never organized.

GC: You were in school, weren’t you?

JS: Yes. I would sell on weekends.

GC: You had a lot of guts, Jane. For a 16-year old kid, that’s a tough thing to go knocking on doors and talking to people who don’t know you. My visor is off to you.

(laughter)

JS: Thank you very much.

GC: How many years did it take before you started enjoying some success?

JS: We grew slowly and steadily. We had two goals: one was to remain solvent. The other one was, my mom always said, “We must do good while we’re doing well.” That was hugely important to her.

[Note: one of the many ways Jane "does good" is her work with Gabriel's Angels, which delivers pet therapy to at-risk children.]

Jane Spicer & Pam Gaber of Gabriel's Angels

Bit by bit, I learned to make appointments and follow up. I did all the local deliveries. We did our first show at the Mountain Shadows Resort here in Scottsdale. And that helped us grow into a couple of other states. Shortly after, we did a PGA Show in Myrtle Beach.

GC: And mom was doing all the work by hand?

JS: Yeah. But we started hiring immigrants. My mom was from England and my father’s from Austria. My mom was really passionate about helping immigrants. She’d teach them to sew. And we grew that way for quite a few years.

GC: How did your mom find these immigrants?

JS: There was an organization called Catholic Social Services that a lot of them had registered with. And through word-of-mouth, we’d get referrals.

GC: These immigrants were from which countries?

JS: Mostly Cambodia and Vietnam.

GC: Then what happened?

JS: We got busier and busier; I hired more and more sewers…

GC: And while you had all these people working for you, were you making the same three or four designs?

JS: I think we were up to around twelve designs. My mom and dad were doing it full time from our house while I was still in school. Then they decided to get a much bigger house so they could run the whole operation out of the house. So three quarters of the house was dedicated to Daphne’s headcovers and we lived in the other quarter.

GC: With all of these animals you were making, it sounds as if you should have bought a zoo.

(laughter)

JS: We probably should have. Because we were always rescuing animals.

Mighty Zeus & Friends at "Work"

GC: Ahh, the Spicer family sounds like a nicer family.

(laughter)

Ok, what happened next? You got the sailboat and you got the car. Did you go to college?

JS: I studied art in college. I wanted nothing to do with the family business. I was going to live in San Francisco and have a graphic design studio. And have a dining room table that didn’t have a sewing machine on it.

I got out of school and I was doing some design work for some ski stores in Phoenix. I’d grown up with these parents that had an incredible work ethic; they worked all the time. And when I got out of school, nobody worked. It was all about how to cheat the boss, when was the next break, or not to really work. It didn’t resonate with me; I hated that. I liked being productive and succeeding.

I met my future husband Steve in college. He was having a similar experience with work. So we decided to quit both our jobs and resurrect the puppet business. We sold one of our cars to capitalize the business and spent six years traveling the art shows.. And we were still helping my parents with the headcover business. They had grown so much that they had to mechanize the production process.

GC: So they were doing the headcovers. You and Steve were doing puppets.

JS: I also worked for them so that we didn’t starve while we were building the puppet business.

GC: Then what?

JS: We continued to grow. We moved into a warehouse, our first proper facility. It had a house attached to it. My dad rented the house; he said the tenants were nice people. There was a strip joint down the street and the house was rented to some strippers, one of whom was named Bambi.

(laughter)

My dad said she was a perfect tenant: “She’ll always have cash!”

(laughter)

GC: That’s exactly what I was going to say! They get cash right when they leave at 4 o’clock in the morning. From what I hear.

(laughter)

JS: We would get paid in ones.

(laughter)

And we knew where those ones had been! They were good tenants, they slept all day; we never saw them. One day I looked out the window and Bambi was digging through the garbage. She was gathering scrap fur material for one of her outfits.

(laughter)

In 1994-1995, my parents decided they wanted to retire so Steve and I bought the company from them. My mom stayed on as a consultant. She kept so much information in her head; we weren’t computerized then.

GC: And how were the headcovers being manufactured then?

JS: We still had people sewing for us.

GC: Did you have salespeople?

JS: We got some field sales reps. At first, if they were breathing, I would hire them. I was so grateful that they’d work for us. We had one in particular who put us on the map.

GC: What’s her name?

JS: Pennee Irwin. She taught me so much. She really knew what she was doing and got us into posh resorts. And we kept getting busier and busier.

In early ’95, my mother was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Twenty months later, we lost her. Shortly after she died – in October of 1996 – Tiger Woods won the Masters for the first time and our business grew 400% in a quarter.

I held the copyright on Tiger’s tiger headcover.

GC: You do? How does one do that?

JS: Sheer luck. My mom and I had designed the tiger and he had been carrying it for years.

GC: He’d been using your tiger headcover?

JS: Yes.

GC: So he must have gotten it from some little pro shop somewhere?

JS: Yeah. His mom had bought it.

GC: So you had the copyright on this before he turned professional?

JS: Yes.

GC: Every style that you did you copyrighted?

JS: That’s right.

GC: Ok, so Tiger wins the Masters by 12 shots and the phone starts ringing the next day?

JS: Yes. In a warm and fuzzy business such as ours, you get wacky people that will call you: “I need 10,000 buffaloes ASAP.”  And we’d always say to them: “No problem. Send us a check for 50% up front and when we get it, we’ll start.”

So after the Masters, we got a call: “We’d like 10,000 tigers right now but we’re gonna want 30,000 total. And we want to pay you more for the tigers than you usually charge because we want premium service.”

I said, “No problem, just send me a check.” I gave them my address and that night I said to Steve, “I got another one of those phone calls today” and didn’t think anything more of it.

The next day I got a FedEx delivery and there was a check for $80,000 in it.

GC: Wow!

JS: I held it up to the light to see if it was real.

(laughter)

Then I started having problems breathing.

(laughter)

Steve and I jumped around, we were so excited. Then we looked at each other and said at the same time, “Oh, shit! How are we going to make 10,000 tigers?”

GC: Did they give you a deadline?

JS: No, they just sent a check.

GC: Then you called Bambi and asked her to cash the check for you.

(laughter)

Had you ever had an order like that?

JS: Oh, no. If we had a 100-piece order it was a big deal.

GC: So how do you make 10,000 tiger headcovers?

JS: First we called every sewer that we’d ever known and started them sewing. Then we had to order the fur. The fur manufacturer called back and said, “Do you really need this much fur or did you make a mistake?”

“No, we really do. But we need terms because we don’t have any money.” We were so afraid that we couldn’t fill the order that we opened a separate bank account and put the $80,000 check in there in case we had to give it back.

GC: How long would it take to make one tiger headcover?

JS: In the beginning, it would take one person all day to make thirty. So we moved into a larger building to handle the orders. Because this young stud was carrying a headcover, it made it ok for all men to carry them.

GC: Not to carry just tigers but any kind of animal?

JS: Anything, yeah. All of their alter egos were coming out, so we were doing lots of gorillas and whatever you felt like when you had to hit a driver.

GC: I put a brassiere on mine.

(laughter)

JS: I’ve had a skunk on mine for a long time.

(laughter)

GC: So things really took off because of Tiger.

JS: Yeah. We contacted some factories in Mexico and they would send us their sewers and we’d teach them all night how to sew.

GC: Can Steve sew?

JS: Yeah, we all learned how. And we would cut the material at night to have it ready for the sewers who came in the morning.

GC: How long did it take to do 10,000 tigers?

JS: It seemed like a lifetime. It took several months.

GC: So even though the customers wanted these headcovers “tomorrow,” they stuck with you anyway?

JS: They did. For which we were very grateful.

GC: Did you ever have any communication with Mr. Woods about these tiger headcovers?

JS: No. But I did with his mom. They’ve always been very nice and have said, “We use Daphne’s headcovers” and for that I’ve been grateful. I’m basically a shy person and respectful of people’s time and space, so I’ve not taken advantage of opportunities to meet them. I didn’t want to be one of those people who say, “Hi, hey, I did this for you.” That’s not who I am so I just didn’t do it.

GC: But you said you spoke with his mother?

JS: Yeah. Once I got a phone call and it was one our buyers. Mrs. Woods was in the background. She said, “I have to have one, his is worn out, I need some more.”

GC: Doesn’t she give him a new one every year?

JS: I believe she does.

GC: But now, I assume, all of your headcovers are manufactured out of the country?

JS: Yes. About 15 years ago we started manufacturing in Indonesia.

GC: How did a nice girl from Phoenix find a manufacturer in Indonesia?

JS: We were buying our animal eyes from a company that hand-made them in Italy.

GC: Makes sense: they’re EYE-talian.

(laughter)

JS: It was Steve’s idea to find a manufacturer. Really, all the good ideas have been his.

GC: Yeah, he married you. That was a good idea!

(laughter)

JS: I always tell him that.

(laughter)

So he called the eye manufacturer and asked him if he knew anyone. And we found out about Bruno, an Italian who was running a factory in Indonesia. And a while later, we moved to a factory in China.

We have a great relationship with the husband and wife team that run the factory there. We’ve vacationed together.

GC: Before the Internet, you must have had a catalog operation. You were selling to pro shops and stores, not directly to consumers?

JS: Right. We never sold directly to consumers. The golf shops built us. I’m very loyal and grateful to the golf shops. Daphne’s still sells directly to them. We’re now in 75 countries.

GC: Do you have one headcover that sells more than others?

JS: It ebbs and flows. The tiger is still extremely popular. Our gopher does very well. It’s iconic with Caddyshack. And our dogs. People love to have their dogs on their bag.

GC: Who does the designing?

JS: We design as a team. Steve and I are involved and we have some designers. We’re hands-on with the design every step of the way.

GC: Do you see an increase in sales of a particular dog breed that wins a dog show like the Westminster?

JS: Oh, absolutely. Or if they’re on a TV show or in a movie. When Wishbone was on TV, we sold tons of Jack Russell terriers. Sales of Dalmatians went up when 101 Dalmatians came out. Lions sold when Lion King came out.

Daphne’s makes headcovers to be the best quality headcover that you’ll ever have. They have a lifetime guarantee; 10 years from now, 15 years from now, if there’s a problem, we’ll fix it or replace it.

There are a lot of novelty items out there but they’re not designed to protect your driver and they’re not made with very good quality.

Our headcovers have my mom’s name on it … it’s my kids’ future … I’ve got people that have been with me for 27 years who have stood by me. And we stand behind our product.

GC: How many tour players – men and women — are carrying your headcovers?

JS: We’re close to about 200.

GC: That’s a lot of freebies!

(laughter)

Daphne's R&D Team

Jane, it’s been fun talking to you about your menagerie. And I love that you’ve got all those animals – the real ones – supervising your office operation. Continued success to Daphne’s.

JS: Thank you.

It did. The “Open Doctor” was kind enough to give me 30 minutes of his time after the round. I was pleased to give Mr. Jones a rousing endorsement of his handiwork. And this had nothing to do with the fact that I birdied the First Hole. (Ok, maybe a LITTLE bit.) But if more golf course architects built holes that high-handicappers could birdie — or even PAR, for cryin’ out loud — the game would be retaining more of its players.

Rees Jones

Golf Conversations: Any ideas for attracting young people to the game?

Rees Jones: We need to get young people to understand that they can communicate face-to-face on the golf course; they don’t have to communicate via Facebook or Twitter.

GC: As a society, for many years now, we’ve been moving away from face-to-face interaction.

RJ: Right.

GC: When you were young, every Sunday you might have dinner with the whole family; all the uncles and cousins and grandparents would get together. Now this one lives in California, this one is in Michigan.

RJ: That’s what we did: we went to church and then the whole family would have our Sunday dinner at midday.

GC: Right.

RJ: The great thing about golf course design is nothing is absolute. Every golf course is a different experience. It’s not the same tennis court, the same Olympic pool, the same squash court. There’s a different style, a different approach to every golf course which makes it fun to travel around the world and the country to experience a different one.

In the old days, you’d have a Seth Raynor that basically built the same holes on every site. But people didn’t move around; there wasn’t that much communication between golfers: “Hey, I just played the Redan hole here and the Redan hole there.”

(laughter)

That’s the great thing about the sport; for the rest of your life you can go to a new place and have a new experience.

GC: Has your design philosophy changed during the course of your career? Is the Rees Jones today different than the Rees Jones of thirty years ago?

RJ: Basically, you custom-design your golf courses for the needs of your client. And the client has a lot to do with how you design a golf course. When you’re getting a course ready for a US Open or a PGA, you really want to make it so that it’s demanding for the best players in the game. And then you want to be able to convert it back … unless it’s Bethpage Black where they never really intend to convert it back. There’s a sign there that says “this course is extremely difficult.”

Bethpage Black: The "Open Dr." at Work

GC: Right.

RJ: And the same thing with Pinehurst #2 which I worked on before Coore and Crenshaw. That’s a unique championship golf course; they’ve got seven other golf courses. So you don’t have to convert that back. In fact, people want to come play the same course…

GC: And get beat up.

RJ: Yeah. But when you have a member club like here at Carmel or at Tulsa Country Club or Lambton up in Toronto, you basically want to think about the lowest common denominator. We want to attract people to come to the game now. I think you’ll see in the Carmel South course here, most of these holes are playable by a higher-handicap player. Because that’s how they start. We’ve got to get these people to stay in the game, not just try the game.

We’ve got to emphasize the exercise factor, the camaraderie, the lifetime challenge, and maybe the beauty of being out in nature. Because they do spend hours on their computer, the iPad, their BlackBerry. I think they are athletically inclined but they generally go to the gym.

GC: Your last point is the one that does it for me. To be outside in nature, to get away from “civilization,” it’s almost a …

RJ: A re-birth. There’s also over-analysis of life with all of this blogging and texting and Facebook and Twitter. Nothing is private anymore.

GC: I don’t understand the Tweeting. I don’t understand the Facebook thing. I have a Facebook account for my website because it’s a way of reaching people who are interested in golf.

RJ: Right.

GC: It all seems very narcissistic to me. I don’t care if you just came back from the grocery store and Bosco was on sale.

(laughter)

RJ: That’s right.

GC: I enjoyed playing the course today.

RJ: Thank you.

GC: I took Barney Adams’s advice and a few months ago started playing more forward tees. Today I played the green tees and had a great time.

RJ: Yeah. I agree with Barney, too. Since I hurt my shoulder and then the therapist broke my arm.

GC: Excuse me?

RJ: Oh, yeah. In therapy, he broke my arm three months after I broke my shoulder.

I don’t hit it very far but I still played the blue tees and I was hitting some long shots. If I moved it up to the white tees, I’m going to hit a 7-iron instead of a hybrid into the green … and that’s more fun.

GC: And you still have to putt.

RJ: Oh, yeah, you do.

GC: You were in the foursome right behind my group today. I thought on a few occasions I heard someone yelling, “Get in the hole!” That wasn’t you, was it?

(laughter)

RJ: I didn’t make a single putt today. The greens are pretty fast. They’re subtle so you might read more break into them sometimes.

GC: How has the use of the computer impacted your business?

RJ: There are a lot of designers who try to design the whole thing on a computer. Which really makes it harder for the contractor because then he’s driven to adhere to this precision. Then you lose the little nuances and subtleties; you can’t get show a green’s hidden contour on a computer.

But with all the grading plans, the drainage plans … we get a lot of our work done with the computer. When we do a job in Palm Springs, they can take our grading plan and do it through GPS. The satellite tells them where to go.

GC: Really?

RJ: Oh, yeah. For the major grading, not the shaping. Not the greens construction but the major grading is all done by GPS.

GC: Which of the courses that you’ve designed have required a lot of earth moving?

RJ: One course in Palm Springs, we had to drop the desert. Because then you had the home sites above it.

GC: Which course was this?

RJ: Andalusia in La Quinta. Gary Drummond from Alabama is the owner. We’re not big earth movers. I think in Las Vegas at Rio Secco and Cascata we had to blast a lot of rock. And at Lake of Isles in Connecticut … that could not be done on the computer because we didn’t know when we were going to hit rock. That was a job that was just done on site and we had two designers on that one and a guy on the job. It was like the old days.

GC: How many folks do you have working for you?

RJ: I’ve not let anybody go in this recession. I’m one of the few designers that kept my staff. I never got big because I just wanted to have four or five jobs a year and I wanted to spend the time on them myself.

So I’ve got three other designers … an executive assistant, a woman who keeps our heads above water. She’s the CFO; she’s the one who makes sure we stay in the black. And then I have three shapers.

GC: Do you ever find yourself waking up in a hotel room wondering, “What city am I in?”

RJ: Uh, yeah. That’s how I broke my shoulder. I had just got back from Japan and I didn’t know where I was. My clock was off and I fell.

GC: You fell? Out of the bed? In the darkness?

RJ: In the darkness. I put my arm out and fell.

GC: Are you doing a fair amount of work in Asia?

RJ: We’re doing one in Beijing right now. We just finished one in Kunming. Looks like we’re going to do a few more. We just finished a complete re-do at Ibaraki Country Club in Osaka. They’re going to have a couple of Asian Tour tournaments on it. Then we’re gonna do some in Korea. We started one in the Bahamas. We just started one in Ireland.

GC: They have a lot of pitch-and-putt courses in Ireland. We don’t have too many of those in the US. Do you think that might be a good way of getting people introduced to the game?

RJ: I really do. We did that up at Black Lake for the UAW. Up in Northern Michigan at their retreat. We built this little 9-hole, pitch-and-putt for the kids.

GC: When did you do that?

RJ: Oh, that must have been 8-10 years ago. It’s called Black Lake Golf Course. Sometimes we build an extra nine that’s not as hard so the kids can get out there. I think that would really be helpful if people that have an 18-hole golf course then add a short 9 where kids can play.

When I play with my granddaughter, I play on this little 9 on Long Island. I take her up so that she gets close to the green. I tee her up on every hole.

GC: How old is she?

RJ: She’s five and a half.

GC: Does she get a kick out of it?

RJ: Oh, yeah! Just by hanging around me, it’s ok!

GC: I can see that. I’d like to hang around with you, too.

(laughter)

Rees Jones & Robert Blumenthal

Does she enjoy the putting part or the irons part?

RJ: She actually likes the short irons because she can do that. I don’t let her hit a driver; it’s a 3-wood. I bought her one of these US Junior Club sets.

GC: You mean you didn’t put her on a launch monitor and get her fitted for clubs?

RJ: I did that at TaylorMade myself.

GC: Did you go to “The Kingdom” in Carlsbad?

RJ: Yeah. They fit me with some clubs.

GC: Me, too. I saw an animated representation of my swing and I vomited all over the studio.

(laughter)

RJ: They didn’t do that for me. I was out there for a tour event; I was doing Torrey Pines over and they had all the pros waiting for spots so I had to do it quickly.

GC: What’s the best part of your game?

RJ: Since I broke my shoulder … I used to drive it very well. I was right down the pike all the time. I think that was the best part of my game because it’s the widest target, the biggest target. You don’t have to zero in as much. Now I’m really working on my 30-yard shot, my 45-yard shot, and my 60-yard shot because I’m not hitting many greens now.

GC: With all the traveling that you do, do you have time to play golf?

RJ: Yeah, I do. We’re not traveling as much as we used to. If I go to Japan, I’ll be there 6 days. Then I come back and I have some time. It isn’t like the old days when you had so many jobs and you’d go from one city to the next to the next to the next. So I have time to play.

GC: Any advice for would-be golf course architects?

RJ: You have to know how to build it. One of my greatest teachers was the guy that built golf courses for my dad. I think you have to know how to build it before you can design it.

GC: The construction part of it.

RJ: Yeah. You have to know how it’s different in the desert in Arizona or Las Vegas than it is on the coast of South Carolina … or the rocks of Connecticut. You have to work enough on different sites to finally figure out how to do it in all these different areas.

And going outside of the country isn’t easy because you don’t have the contractors that you have in the States. But I think it would help if somebody worked for a contractor for a couple of years. Then they’d know how to build it. And it would be easier to design something that can be built.

GC: What about college?

RJ: Landscape architecture or civil engineering. You basically learn all the technical stuff but there’s no course in golf course design. It’s a craft and you learn by doing. If you’re fortunate, you get to work for a golf course designer in the summertime. And then, if you’re really fortunate, you get to work for a golf course designer for a couple of years.

It’s hard though. It really helps to have a father named Robert Trent Jones. Tom Fazio because of George Fazio. The Nicklaus kids because of Jack.

GC: Young Tom Morris had Old Tom Morris.

(laughter)

RJ: They were really playing more golf than designing.

GC: Can you see yourself somewhere down the road retiring or are you having too much fun?

RJ: Well, my wife says I can’t come home for lunch if I retire.

(laughter)

Most golf course architects don’t retire. They enjoy what they do so much. Unlike the computer business, the more you do, the more experience you have and you can transition your designs. Like here at Carmel, I think it’s more important that we make sure everybody can play. We’ve got to make our courses easier now. Carmel, Tulsa, and Lambton are all very, very playable.

So I think I’m on the right track now for this difficult time in golf. I always made my public golf courses pretty easy. But then I’ve done twelve different golf courses for major championships and those you don’t design that easy. But most of them have another golf course next door which is fairly easy to play. So you can test yourself on the hard one and go back to reality on the easier one.

GC: Most golfers shoot around 104.

RJ: Is that right?

GC: I believe so. And those golfers don’t know about shot values or aesthetics. They just don’t want to lose a ton of golf balls and they want to enjoy the surroundings. And I think you’ve done that here at Carmel.

RJ: Maybe the answer is that we adopt the British game. You don’t play for score every time you play.

GC: Absolutely.

RJ: They only play for score one day a week, if that. And that’s only for the captain to give them a handicap. But every other round, it’s you against me. Play match play and just pick up if you’re out of the hole.

GC: Speaking of the British game, whenever anyone talks about golf course architecture, the Old Course at St. Andrews is always held up as the standard of course design. Why is that?

RJ: It’s mysterious, first of all. There are so many hidden hazards. Bobby Jones didn’t like it when he first played it because he didn’t know how to attack it. You do get a lot of the rub of the green which Americans…

GC: We don’t like that!

RJ: We have to accept that. There’s a lot of the rub of the green in life.

GC: Yes.

RJ: Supposedly a lot of our designs evolved from the Old Course, especially green contours. The bunker style is much more ragged. They have the pot bunkers and the revetted faces. We can’t model that here because we don’t have enough moisture in the air to keep them from collapsing.

So it was the model but that model has changed in America. Their hazards are random and their contours are abrupt. The wind can blow the ball off the green. But they don’t mind because that’s part of the deal. Here we want everything perfect.

GC: That’s right … and people cry, “It’s not fair.”

RJ: And maybe that’s another thing: we don’t need to have the high standards of maintenance.

GC: Yes.

RJ: We’ve got to let the owners have a better chance of making a buck so they can keep the facilities open, especially the public ones. So people shouldn’t complain about it not being a perfect surface … or hitting a ball mark or a spike mark. Again, just like life: good breaks and bad breaks. American golf has got to be too perfect and maybe we ought to get back to the British style.

Look at when Billy Casper and Arnold Palmer were putting. Wrist putting and whacking the ball. Now we have the high speeds – 11 on the Stimpmeter here for everyday play.

GC: What about the Augusta National syndrome?

RJ: That had been the case to some degree. Now I think USGA is on the right track: “Brown is better.” When I was a kid, we had no fairway irrigation in Montclair so you had to play the ground game a lot.

In the last 30 years, the demand for perfection has come on. The grasses are better, the maintenance equipment is better, the superintendents are better educated. But you go up to Maine and there are still some very rustic golf courses that are a lot of fun to play.

GC: Ok, this is my last question: can you recommend 5 courses that you like to play in the United Kingdom?

RJ: People always ask me, “What do you think of this course?”  And I just say, “Hey, it’s great to have the chance to play them all.”

GC: Truer words were never spoken.  Thank you, Mr. Jones.

*************************************************************

You can learn more about Rees Jones by visiting his web site.

My thanks to the following folks at Carmel Country Club for their kindness and hospitality:

John M. Schultz, General Manager
Jeff Nichols, Director of Golf
Elizabeth Malcolm & Diane Willi, Communications Dept.

A few months later, Geoff and I had a golf conversation about Quagmire’s new venture: a line of clothing inspired by Arnold Palmer’s apparel from the ’50s, ’60s, and ’70s. Geoff was given access to Mr. Palmer’s storage closets and trunks at his Latrobe, PA home to view the actual shirts and sweaters worn by The King during his long and fashionable reign.

Geoff Tait

Golf Conversations: This Arnold Palmer thing you’re involved with sounds pretty interesting. Did you meet him?

Geoff Tait: We did. We met him at Bay Hill last week. That’s the first time that we got to sit down with him and have a chat. We got to know his family a little bit. We went to Latrobe in December and went through his closets, had dinner with his daughter. That was cool. We got a feel for the family, we met his brother.

GC: Wow! You went through his closets?

GT: We did, yeah.

GC: Was he there when you were doing this?

GT: No. The first time we met him was at Bay Hill. He had to go to Madrid to launch something else so he couldn’t be at Latrobe. He saved everything from the past, since 1950, I guess. It’s neat to see all the pictures, clothing, shoes, golf clubs. It’s unreal.

GC: He wrote a book a few years ago which showed a lot of his memorabilia. So his closet had shirts and pants and sweaters from the ‘50s and ‘60s?

GT: Yep. Exactly. It was an honor that we were able to go into his house.

GC: Sure.

GT: His daughter, Amy Saunders, took us into his basement where they used to play pool. We went right into his closet. He had a trunkful of cardigans. There was another closet that had his old boots and leather jackets.

GC: There must have been a lot of mothballs in that closet.

(laughter)

Are you talking about hundreds of shirts? Hundreds of sweaters?

GT: Yes, quite a bit. I’d say there are a couple of hundred pieces. There’s a barn that he has and he saved everything that he’s ever made, from golf clubs to golf balls. There are shoe racks – probably 500 pairs of shoes that he wore throughout the years.

GC: He sounds like the Imelda Marcos of the golf world.

(laughter)

GT: In his office, there are pictures of him and all the presidents … and all the airplanes he’s flown. It was an unbelievable experience.

GC: I’m very jealous. I’ve been doing these interviews for over a year now and I can’t tell you how many people I’ve spoken to who either know Arnold Palmer or who’ve met Arnold Palmer. And I would love to meet him. In exchange for an interview, I’ve offered to shave off my beard — which I’ve had all my life — because I read that he doesn’t like beards. But I draw the line at shaving my legs.

(laughter)

But I’m thrilled that you met him. What an experience! How did the idea of Arniewear come about?

GT: I got a phone call from the Palmer people; I guess it was last Easter. They said they’d been following us for the past 5-6 years, watching the Quagmire brand grow. They liked the youthfulness and the firepower behind it.

I met a guy in Toronto who’s affiliated with IMG. The deal is based through Arnold Palmer Enterprises. We had a little chat. He said, “We’ve kind of made the Arnold Palmer classicwear disappear in the US. The reason being, we want to come back with a bang with something new and fresh. We’ve watched you guys grow; we know that you have great fabrics and great attitudes as far as youthfulness in the golf business. Would you be interested in speaking further and seeing if we could get a license agreement going?”

I said, “Yeah, for sure.”

GC: Wow, you must have been floored!

GT: Yeah, it was neat.

GC: That’s quite a compliment that Mr. Palmer was watching you guys.

GT: Yeah, you’re exactly right. I’ve been a golfer since I was six. I worked at golf clubs, taught golf on cruise ships. I’m a hard-core golfer; I’ve got lots of friends in the golf business. I know that Mr. Palmer is the top of the top in golf so you’re right: it was a huge compliment.

GC: Yes, Mr. Palmer is the top of the top. But I’m right below him.

(laughter)

So this conversation we’re having, this is also going to be a real feather in your cap.

(laughter)

Geoff Tait, Robert Blumenthal & Bobby Pasternak

GT: I gotcha. That’s why I was nervous for this conversation.

GC: Yeah, right. Ok, continue.

(laughter)

GT: And then Tiger is Number 3, right?

GC: No, my dog Wolfie is Number 3.

(laughter)

Wolfie @ Birkdale GC, designed by Arnold Palmer

Ok, so what happened after the meeting in Toronto?

GT: They invited some of the Arnold Palmer people up to Canada. It was Cori Britt, Arnold Palmer’s vice president. He kind of runs Arnold Palmer Enterprises on a day-to-day basis. And Carolyn Sweeney from another office. So we met these people and toured them around our operation.

Two years ago we partnered with a company called the Jaytex Group out of Toronto because Quagmire Group grew out of its skin as far as funding is concerned. Jaytex is the Canada licensee for Tommy Bahama and Penguin and Kenneth Cole.

So being with Jaytex impressed the Palmer people. If we were working out of the back of our cars and didn’t have anything that looked like we’re in business…

GC: You mean like what I’m doing? I’m sitting here in my underwear.

(laughter)

GT: That’s where we started up until about two years ago. We were working out of my business partner’s dad’s back office. And I’m sure Arnold Palmer wouldn’t want one of his businesses run like that. So, luckily, we lined up nicely with these guys; we have two huge warehouses and showrooms up here.

So we gave them the tour. And they said, “The next step should be to come on down to Latrobe and you can get a feel for all the history behind this.” The talk was, let’s make it a classic Arnie line that shows what he wore back in the ‘50s, ‘60s, and ‘70s when he was in his prime. And let’s put a modern twist to it so it’s got all the functional fabrics and make sure it’s relevant to today’s market. And that’s exactly what we did.

I went and saw the designs and styles that he used to wear. I even took back a couple of pairs of his pants, a couple of sweaters, a couple of shirts. He used to wear the hard collars and the long plackets.

GC: Back then, I would assume all the fabrics were cotton, yes?

GT: All cotton, yeah. And that’s one thing he did request: “Can we have a couple of cotton shirts in the line?”

I said, “Yeah.” At the end of the day, it’s not cotton that’s selling these days but why not have something that feels like cotton? So we put a really nice cotton/poly in the line so it will still be wicking and all that good stuff.

GC: Wait, let me interrupt you for a moment. You said that cotton isn’t selling these days?

GT: In the golf market, not at all. For the last couple of years, people have asked us to put cotton into our Quagmire line and we do it because we think there’s going to be a market there … because the buyers are asking for it, including some major chain golf stores. And those are the shirts that are left on the racks.

GC: Huh!

GT: People love to talk about, “Oh, I love my cotton golf shirts.” But to be honest with you, those people that are talking about it – probably only 20% of them actually go out and buy that cotton golf shirt.

GC: Two-faced cotton lovers! But isn’t that interesting? I didn’t know that. I would have thought the opposite. So people are into the wicking thing?

GT: Polyester wicking. Even in shorts. Cotton isn’t selling. It’s been that way for years. Everybody says, “It’s all going to turn around, cotton is going to be more popular than polyester.” But at the end of the day, in 90-degree weather, you want to wear a polyester wicking shirt.

GC: But Arnie requested a little bit of cotton?

GT: Yeah. He wanted the cotton feel. He loves cotton. You’re right when you said there must have been a lot of cotton stuff in his closet. Back then, even before he had his own line, he would wear Penguin…

GC: Munsingwear?

GT: Yeah. Until he had his own brand with the umbrella, he was wearing Penguin/Munsingwear which is all cotton. And to this day, it’s all cotton. We distribute it here in Toronto.

GC: Is everything going to be logoed with Mr. Palmer’s famous umbrella or are you going to have a different logo?

GT: All the clothing is going to have a black and white umbrella. They’ve used this umbrella in the past for other things besides clothing. I don’t want to put the red/yellow/green/white umbrella on there because people will relate it to this brand that they tried to kind of make disappear – the classic, older man stuff.

The black and white is a little slicker. We went back and forth with the new logo stamp and called it Arnie. He and his daughter and Cori … they all approved this new Arnie font. For years it’s just been Arnold Palmer’s signature. So it’s been a huge honor to be able to re-invent the Arnie logo stamp. So everything will have Arnie and a black and white umbrella beside it.

Arnie Golf and Lifestyle Apparel Logo

GC: So this older line that they want to disappear … was that because the sales weren’t large enough?

GT: I don’t know the exact reason but I do know that the demographic was quite a bit older. They still sell it in Sears up here in Canada. I would say the target age group for that brand up here is probably 70 or 80 years old.

The market in golf is changing so rapidly. Arnold’s grandson, Sam Saunders, has been sitting in on a couple of meetings, too, because he’s out there playing on tour. And he loves the line. And he’s the perfect demographic: “This is cool and I’m going to be proud to be wearing clothing with my Grampa’s legacy on it.”

GC: That is cool.

GT: I think the demographic will be across the board: the people that love Arnie and watched him play back in the ‘60s and ‘70s … and the new, young guys who love golf and know that he was a legend and still is.

GC: So when you took some of Mr. Palmer’s shirts back to Canada … tell me the truth: did you try one of them on?

(laughter)

GT: I haven’t, actually. I put them in…

GC: A safe deposit box.

(laughter)

GT: The next time I went into my office, it smelled like moth balls.

(laughed)

GC: Listen, that is not a negative! You’ve got 50-year-old shirts – of course you want to have them in moth balls. That’s just common sense. Ok, so you took the shirts and then what? How do you go about designing them?

GT: I’m the creative director so I lay it out. I don’t have any skills when it comes to computer design. So I pick the colors, I lay it out, I took some bits from different shirts. I hand draw stuff. I have a girl named Linda; she puts it into the computer. We print it out and I go through it.

In a lot of the pictures from the ‘50s, it was the Penguin with the shorter placket and smaller collar. When it evolved into the ‘60s, the collars got a little bigger and the plackets got a little bit longer and the pants got a little bit wider leg. And then the ‘70s, it was kind of in between.

Arniewear: "The Champion"

So the ‘50s collection will be the first delivery and it will all be the shorter plackets and smaller collars. Two months later, the ‘60s will come out; it’ll have a different hang-tag on it and will tell about Mr. Palmer’s accomplishments in the ‘60s. It’ll have a bigger collar and a longer placket. The three collections will have different feels but they’ll all have the Arnie name and umbrella.

GC: So the ‘70s will come out two months after the ‘60s?

GT: Yes, it will be in three deliveries.

GC: And when are your goods planning on hitting the stores?

Arniewear: "The Captain" Cardigan

GT: We’re aiming for January/February delivery of 2012. We’ve got a couple of targets that we want to go after: all the Arnold Palmer golf courses, obviously. One or two big-chain golf shops. We’ll focus on the Pebble Beaches and the Pine Valleys because he’s kind of connected to those places.

GC: Gee, you think he knows anyone there?

(laughter)

He’s “kind of connected”???

(laughter)

He could sell his shirts at the North Pole if he wanted to!

(laughter)

Speaking of the ‘50s, I think Mr. Palmer’s first professional victory was in the Canadian Open.

GT: Sure was. Canadian Open, 1955. Funny, Chez Reavie won the Canadian Open as a rookie in 2008 and he was wearing our Quagmire brand. And that put Quagmire on the map in Canada.

GC: I’ll be going to Canada in a few weeks. Specifically, Cape Breton Island in Nova Scotia where I’ll be bringing six of their golf courses to their respective knees.

GT: It’s beautiful there.

GC: If you wanted to meet me there with a dozen of your Arnie shirts, I’d be happy to buy you a hot dog.

(laughter)

GT: There you go!

GC: Ok, so you had Linda pop the design into the computer and then what? It gets emailed to China?

GT: Yes, we send over swatches, Pantone colors and shades. I’m actually going to China tomorrow. I’ll spend a week there and make sure everything’s correct and hopefully see samples in two months. Then we’ll build the catalogs in June and be ready to sell to the shops July 1st for the spring delivery.

GC: Well, I love the idea of Arnie golf shirts. If it’s “good to be the King,” the next best thing is, “It’s good to be wearing the King’s shirts.”

(laughter)

Good luck, Geoff! I wish you every success with your new venture.

GT: Thank you.

GC: And don’t forget: I take a “Large.”

(laughter)

Arniewear: "The Albatross"